quote:

Originally posted by srmbr:
...I used preset 00 for this mic but next time I will experiment with the correct Beta58 preset and see how it sounds.

I would recommend trying the "miked guitar amp" preset instead of the "Beta 58" preset. The Beta 58 preset was designed to help close-miked vocals so this would emphasize the wrong frequencies.

Mark

Thanks...that makes alot of sense.

And, if you want to simplify things a bit, pick up an e609 and just hang the mic over the amp and leave the stand at home.

I use the power stand bag from my system to kill the "sonic beam" coming off the 12" speaker which really helps with improving sound on the stage. Just lean the bag in front of the amp.

It's great to read that things are progressing. Some bands take one song, some one set, some a bit longer. If you guys get there, you'll probably never go back to being isolated on stage by monitors.

Steve

PS Back, earlier in the post you mentioned the sound competeing with the crowd. Well, in my experience, that's a battle you can't win with any speaker system. If the band gets louder, the crowd either:

a) raises their voices
b) moves their mouthes closer to the other person's ears
c) both a) and b)
d) moves closer to the stage because they want to hear the band
e) leaves because the band's too loud

Adding more volume to the room only aggrivates things in my experience(s). Your milage may varry.

Steve

Thanks for the input.

I have been looking at the e609's...

Also, I understand the volume comments...

I preach the same thing to my drummer who still is skeptical. I always say, "I never heard of people leaving a bar because the band was to quite!"

Thanks

Well

Alittle update on the band's progress with our set-up.

Last night we played at the same bar that basically started this thread.

It was a big night, the town of St. Henry Ohio has a "stag night" and former OSU player attend and speak. The place was filled with over 250 people.

Anyway, the situation is such.

We use OM5's, I am using my Boogie, 2 EAW 18's / QSC EX4000 amp, and of course, we are all using a Classic. Bass player and drummer both use 4 B1's and Bose amp.

Had alot of comliments and alot of people dancing / drinking / smiling. I was told we could be heard anywhere in the bar (75ft x 75ft).

The big breakthru is I heard my drummer "bragging" about the system. This is all good. His drums (TD-20's) really sound good, great low end, very high quality. We came out of the packlite amp into the QSC. Previously, we just ran the kick direct into the amp. Chaining the amps gave him the benefit of the 18's on all drums.

We still need to work on our volume alittle, my ears ring today. And I couldn't hear the drums real well, at least when things got cranking. My fault, need to control myself better.

Anyway, thanks for all your help, I haven't talked to my drummer yet but I hope he is happier and will continue using the Bose system. He wanted to bring in the 3 tier system last night because he was worried the Bose couldn't cover the situation....

Thanks

Well

Finally talked my drummer tonight.

He is about 75% happy with the "new set-up."

He is getting alot of feedback from his son(s) and there bands musicians.

They just don't like the "sound" compared to the old 3 tier system.

It's funny, they said they could not hear it very good in the back but sounded pretty good on the dance floor / dance area.....

I am thinking...And the problem is??

If you can't hear it, move closer!

Also, my wife was in the bathroom, the farthest corner in the bar and the girls were singing every word with us ("You don't even call me by my Name" - David Alan Coe).

Next bar situation.

We are going to play on a corner stage and I am alittle concerned on set-up and if the drums will be set to the side or will have to be in the middle.

Any suggestions?
Here is a link to My Stage Layout in The Sketcher

Hi Steve,

Thanks for using the Sketcher. Here is your Sketch.



-- click image to make changes to the live version --

quote:

Originally posted by srmbr:
... they said they could not hear it very good in the back but sounded pretty good on the dance floor / dance area..... If you can't hear it, move closer!...

It may depend on what they "can't hear" ...

If you can't hear yourself, maybe the answer is to move closer to the L1 ... unless you're a bass player or listening the kick drum. In those situations, you might have to move further away from the B1's (or move the B1's further away).

However, if the problem is you can't hear the OTHER performers, then you have to move away from "your" L1.

quote:

...they said they could not hear it very good in the back...
I am thinking...And the problem is?? If you can't hear it, move closer!

I am so very happy to see you going through the very same thoughts and changes that I have in my Bose evolution.

As for the corner stage and drums in the middle,
Vdrums are much more forgiving as far as the others guys hearing each other over them.
Yet I continue to set up off-to-the-side.
When in a corner situation, we typically put the bassist in it, with his B1s along the side wall in front of his L1.
Guitar center, drums on the outside.

Dan

The can't hear was feedback from some audience members..not the band. But you info is useful and thanks.

The corner stage has me worried because the Bose won't be able to "breath" properly..if that makes sense.

We will have to experiment and live with it.

I know I am planning putting the 18's on the dance floor in front of the stage and only keep the B1's on stage.

Well

Could be trouble in paradise..

Our drummer is still not happy with the Bose sound and the fact it doesn't rip your head off.

He told us today he is putting together a smaller system (EAW Box - 15" & horn / new Allen and Heath Board / QSC amps / 18" subs).

We were talking this all over once we finished setting up and out of coincidence the barmaid came up and asked us what the sticks on stage were...

We explained and she commented that usually bands have big boxes that are so loud that you can't hear drink orders at the bar. (Of course this conversation was going my way)

She said that when we were doing a sound check it sounded great and she could hear everything..

Anway, we will see how it goes tonight.

We played last night and the place was packed (200 - 250 people), especially younger college kids.

Alot of energy and everyone happy and it started good on the 1st (when they dance on Here Comes the Sun, it is going to be a good night).

After the show I asked about 10 people what they thought, age 21 to 50.

Everyone said it sounded great, could hear everything very clearly (this is the bar where we play in the corner / cave).

The younger gen said it was great and alot of energy and everything was perfectly balanced (musicians mixing their own sound), the older said they loved it because they could hear it everywhere and still talk.

The barmaid said, "I love your songs and I was singing every song with you all night long!"

The bar was on the other side of the room and tons of people inbetween.

My drummer was red-lining his packlite amp basically all night, I need to work with him.

The saga cotinues.

Thanks

Hi Steve,

Glad you had a great show.

From before the gig...

quote:

He told us today he is putting together a smaller system (EAW Box - 15" & horn / new Allen and Heath Board / QSC amps / 18" subs).

and after

quote:

My drummer was red-lining his packlite amp basically all night, I need to work with him.

So - he didn't use his new rig?

I can't remember if you have a T1® in your setup anywhere. If so, have you tried the KickGate™ feature?

ST

He is still putting together another small EAW system, we did not use last night.

We do not have a T1...his lower floor toms were clipping the system more than the kick.

Sorry to hear your drummer isn't getting into the proper mindset, it could happen yet.
Is he putting any muffling on that floor tom? Moon Gel or the like? That helps control the rumble.

A T1s Kick Gate *will* give way more gain and control to the kick, and according to starvin007, it can do wonders for the floor tom too!
I used to get red LED on my Packlite before my kick got where I liked it, but since the T1, that problem is pretty much gone.
You can turn the kick up all the way as long as the overload LED on the T1 channel isn't red.
Of course you will hit the built in compression eventually, but I've honestly had plenty of volume so far.
Pretty amazing.

Hello Drumr,

My drummer uses Roland TD-20's so control is no issue.

I need to keep working with him.

Thanks

srmbr, the drummer in my all-Bose 5 piece funk band also uses Roland edrums and has for about 2 years. For smaller places we (bass,drums, and one voice) use a Classic with 4 B1's which sounds great. For anywhere larger than say 100 people, we've begun to use a powered sub (Yorkville 2x10) for that ooomph we want for the kick. Sounds good, but I believe that a bigger part of getting that "sound" is that he runs the volume on his module (TD-6) at between 130 and 300 o'clock.m Not sure why this is but take it FWIW.

Steve, I forgot you were using V-drums, sorry.

I know what your drummer is hearing now...I notice the same thing when my kick drum has a *solo*.
The sound is clean, clear, and punchy, but there is no *noise* surrounding it like you'd have with a real drum.
It's great for the ensemble sound, but loses out a bit when played by itself.

I first noticed this problem when watching a video that my daughter had caught of us using her camera.
We were playing "I Think We're Alone Now", and during the *heartbeat* kick solo, I heard her say "Loud-er".
I asked her about it and she said the E-drums sound fine, but that she did miss the big boom on that part.

Part of the problem is that the V-kick drum pads are just not *that* dynamic (or maybe it's my foot),
but it's hard to get way down & way up, volume-wise. I don't have a "Mesh" kick pad, mine is a KD-8.
Some say you can adjust the module for it, I have not been able to do so to my satisfaction.

What I did to overcome those few solo spots was to dial up a kit with a bigger kick sound, less *muffling*,
more rumble, and actually would ride the fader on my TD-12 during the passage.
Another trick I learned later was to assign a big, fat, higher volume kick drum to another pad, and hit them both.

Alittle update on the band and it's progress with using all Bose and EAW Subs.

-We still struggle on listening to each other and working as a team. We had some comments last night that the vocals were getting buried in the mix. We start pretty good and then the volume adjustments start to happen.

-I think the drums sound absolutely amazing. The quality is better than my drummers acoustics have ever sounded. The low-end response is great. My pant legs move more now than they did with the 3 tier system.

-We also had the speech from an "expert" soundman..at least that is his opinion. He said people didn't like how the drums we on the side and didn't look right. He also thinks we should go back to the 3 tier system. This is the same soundman that wears a t-shirt that says, "If it is too loud, you are too old!" He also was bragging about how he had a hospital x-mas party and brought in a total of 8 - 18's and 4 top boxes. Of course people told him to turn it down before he started.

-This summer we will be doing alot of outdoor shows..see what the comments are by using the 3 tier set-up.

Thanks