new discussion for Babyblue
Moved Reply: How would we hook up a 5 piece band, using 5 L1 M2's w/Tonematches, to a house PA? We are using the L1's in their traditional configuartion, i.e. each musician uses their own L1 for their instruments and mics. Should we send each channel's preamp out, the aux out, or master out, to the house? How would we determine and adjust the level of the out signal? Will there be phasing or Haas effect problems? What should we do with the house monitors?
I guess it all depends on how big the venue is, and how involved the house engineer will be in the ongoing management of the sound.
If you want the house mix to be like your stage mix, then send the T1® ¼ inch jack Master Outputs to the house system. That is - one line per musician. Whatever you do onstage is going to be sent to the House System. I would probably do it this way.
If you want to let the house sound engineer manage the sound for the house (without any control from you) then send the individual preamp outputs from the T1®s (note - you can only do this for Channels 1,2,3 but if you want to dig into it deeper you could send Channel 4/5 through to the Aux output and use that as your Channel 4/5 send). I would NOT do this because this has the house engineer creating a different mix than you are hearing on stage. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, just that I wouldn't because I want the audience to hear the mix that musicians create on the stage.
Will there be phasing or Haas effect problems? This depends on how the house engineer does things. There could be, but if the house system is not overlapping the same areas as you are with your L1®s, you should not have a problem.
If the venue is small enough that it could be well served with the L1®s alone then you probably won't need any support from the house system.
I would NOT use the house monitors. Just turn them off or tell the house sound engineer that the L1®s are your monitors as well as your backline amps. If you have the house monitors running - it probably will sound very strange on stage.
How does that all sound to you?
Thanks, you confirmed what I was thinking. Of course, I would only use the house system if it were a very large venue. We have 3 double-bass L1's for the 2 guitarists and keyboardist, and 2 quad-bass L1's for the drummer and bass player, so there's plenty of power for most venues. But there is one large bar we booked were the owner insists all bands use the house PA and his sound man. He wants the volume under his control, so he enforces this policy.
It seems like a good idea to simplify things by sending each T1's master out to the house, thereby making our mix their mix. Most sound men I know are not control freaks and would appreciate us simplifying the mix.
My only concern is the possible overlapping issue. Because the L1's have such a far and wide throw, it seems certain that there would be quite a lot of overlapping. If there is a problem, do you expect it to be severe? How can it be minimized?
The whole overlap issue is pretty much in the hands of the house sound engineer. I don't think there is very much you can do about that from your end of things.
You can try to reduce your stage volume, but you can only do that so much.
What happens in the house (where the overlap is going to happen) is up to house sound engineer. If the house can control the sound in zones then you're probably okay.
I expect that if there is a problem, you are not going to hear it on stage unless something really horrible is happening (for example: the house subwoofers are out of phase with the B1s) (highly unlikely and probably curable at the house end of things).
If this were a quiet concert venue, I might be more concerned but in a large bar where someone is actively concerned about sound and sound levels, I think you will be okay.
My trio (w/3-L1s) did a big stage gig as you mention.
We used T1 direct outputs to the FOH.
The sound man was happy because our singer is really powerful, and he barely had to put him in the mains.
Had our singer used a "mix" out, that would have meant problems with guitar/vocal blend for the sound guy.
Thanks ST and Drumr. Interesting point about a "mix" out. So what you're saying is that keeping the vocals separate from the instruments would be better for the sound man? Would you also recommend separting the instruments as well, via the channel preamp outs? For example, I have a vocal mic, electric guitar, and acoustic guitar on my T1? This brings up another question: do the preaamp outs contain the T1's FX? This would be a problem if it doesn't because I use the FX. Do the Aux and Master outs contain the FX?
The T1® Preamp Outs are post-trim (only). So there are no effects (or Presets or EQ) at the Preamps Out.
The Master Out is a clone of what is sent to the Model II Power Stand through the ToneMatch® port but you can set that to be pre/post the Master Volume on the T1®. Details here T1® ¼ inch jack Outputs
click picture for details.
The Aux out is a separate submix that you create by adding individual T1® Channels (pre or post fader) to the Aux output. Note: There is NO reverb in the Aux output.
You can read all about that here: T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Aux Output
click the picture for details.
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