I play a Yamaha PSR-3000 keyboard through my Model II with T1. Given the lack of keyboard presets I'm open to anyone's suggestion about setting the T1 as I have not found one of any sort that suits. The keyboard actually has a little better sound just with its own speakers, and that should not be.

I've tried several guitar settings, accordion and the couple of keyboard settings it has. I have tried manipulating the various and sundry other controls on the T1 but just can't find the good sound I had expected. I'm not complaining as much as I'm asking.

I also have a Kawai CP-175 piano playing through my new system, and the same applies.

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Pon:
I play a Yamaha PSR-3000 keyboard through my Model II with T1. Given the lack of keyboard presets I'm open to anyone's suggestion about setting the T1 as I have not found one of any sort that suits. The keyboard actually has a little better sound just with its own speakers, and that should not be.

I've tried several guitar settings, accordion and the couple of keyboard settings it has. I have tried manipulating the various and sundry other controls on the T1 but just can't find the good sound I had expected. I'm not complaining as much as I'm asking.

I also have a Kawai CP-175 piano playing through my new system, and the same applies.

Thanks.

Pon,

For the modern electronic keyboards I have encountered, they have sounded best 'flat' (under keyboards, there is a setting for 'Flat with Keys zEQ'). That includes our Yamaha here (I forget which model # off hand) and several Yamahas we have tried, Cliff's GEM, and a Nord Electro.

Really important: make sure you are taking the 'mono' 1/4" out . On our Yamaha, it is explicitly labeled 'L/Mono'. We have a similar Yamaha here that we run with that setting. I forget the model # we have, but I think that keyboard has a graphic EQ on it, does it not? Ill check what Cliff (who plays those 88 key contraptions :-) ) has the graphic set to on the keyboard here.

Give those tips a shot and let us know how it goes - and what you are missing that you want to hear. We'll get you to where you want to be...

Good luck,
Mike

Mike I thank you so much. I'm just searching and wondering. Actually the T1 is so far above my head in what it Will do that I sometimes feel frustrated with it since I just don't know.

I am running the 1/4" mono out as you suggested. If either of these keyboards have an equalizer I've not found it, I don't think they do.

What I'm looking for that I haven't found is hard to explain of course, since it’s just a personal sound preference, but I'd say depth, or richness if I could choose something that I seem to be missing. The higher notes rather than sounding brilliant and alive sound a little "too much" so in that they kinda ring and just lose their flavor.

Also, another consideration is I play a lot of some other sound from the keyboards than just piano. For example, the automatic accompaniments which include bass, drums, guitars, horns, strings and on and on, you get the picture. I've wondered if that's confounding my efforts also. Maybe the T1 and me just haven't gotten the message yet how it should be set or what to do with all those sounds.

Look, I absolutely love this system, it's the best I ever had by a long shot, I love it and I’m not complaining about it at all, rather, I’m complaining I just haven’t “gotten it” yet it appears, and I’ve had it and played gigs a plenty in the seven months or so I’ve had it, yet I'm still not pleased with its sound completely. But I've been around quite a long time doing this and I'm finding the thing a whole lot more capable than I, or over my head. Thus, my probing for help.

Y'all are the best. What I really wish is one of you could come down "for tea" or some such and set this thing! I know y'all know how, but that being something that ain't gonna happen I'm wide open to your suggestions and thank you for them.

I lean on the fact that I believe y'all can help me get this thing going in a way you'd be proud if you heard it, as well as me. Right now I'm just not pleased so much with the way I have it configured and what I’m ending up with. I presently am using the T1 configured according to one of the manual examples for a keyboard. In that configuration a lot of the T1 features are not used of course.

I sure do thank you for your time, it's greatly appreciated.

Mike, on your quote "For the modern electronic keyboards I have encountered, they have sounded best 'flat' (under keyboards, there is a setting for 'Flat with Keys zEQ'), I can not find that setting under the Category "Keyboards" on my T1. There is one similar under the Category "D J Playback". Could you expound a little on where that setting is for me please?

Thanks.

Pon,

The setting I am talking about is:

Keyboards -> General Keys

I apologize - I didn't have a T1 in front of me last night and I forgot the name.

This preset is 'Flat', and has zEQ controls specifically tailored to adjusting keyboards. Give that a try.

The next thing I would try is pulling out just a bit of 'Mid' (to -3.0db to start) and then turning the volume up a bit on the T1 to compensate.

Your Yamaha is indeed a bit different from ours. Yours does not have a graphic EQ - so you don't have as much control there. That's ok - the T1 can one way or another get you there.

Just keep trying and let us know what you like and don't like.

Mike

Mike, I appreciate y'all so much, you're the best. I'll give those a whirl.

And, Happy Valentine's Day to you all as well!

God Bless

Pon

We have a Yam CP300 on our stage. It sounds great by itself with its internal speakers. The thing is, it's in stereo. It doesn't sound that great in mono thruough the L1, which is how most players will use it. There's a lot written about this. It seems to have a lot to do with combining stereo samples into mono. The middle part of the instrument in particular sounds hollow and phasey to me and it's a funny artifact of using something that was meant to sound great on its own in stereo in mono. My old GEM Pro2 is the king of anything we have ever used in mono, including the GEM ProMega3. It has the "RealPiano" sound of the Pro2 as a patch and that's what we used until it developed a brain aneurism.

Any keyboard or electronic drum or synth always sounds their best flat throught the L1.

Thank you so much Cliff. That's the gist of my story, my PSR-3000 is the same way, sounds great on its own but the L1 actually hurts it, though of course it's louder, and necessary in a venue of course.

I'm hearing (or not hearing) the same dilemma you report about the mid-range etc., it just sounds hollow, lackluster for want of a word.

I'll keep trying this and that and thank y'all for any ideas you may have for I'll sure try it! Have a good day and God bless.

Pon,

Have you tried bypassing the T1 and going direct into the powerstand's analog input and see how it sounds?
Just in case there is an effect or a *wrong preset* affecting the sound from the T1.
I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me, I forget to hit the Channel Edit button...
I use the T1 for a few different and varied groups, and regularly forget to return the mixer to my own presets.

I had a guy in my studio last week who had a spankin' new Yamaha MOTIF XS8 keyboard...very nice.
It sounded excellent thru the T1, set flat.
Not just piano sounds either, we had full drums, bass, backing and lead sequences.
I used the MONO out on the keys for his recording, into the T1.
We monitored in the room thru the L1, the recording sounded just the same.

I was listening for any kind of phasing or missing frequencies after reading a number of unhappy posts here.
No one at my place could hear anything at all out of the ordinary.
In fact it was all extraordinary.
I sure hope you get it figured out.

Now drumr that's a good idea, thanks, I hadn't thought of plugging directly into the L1. I'll sure try that and thank you for jogging my thought on that.

With help from you folks I'm trying some different settings and hope to at least get the system where it doesn't hurt the sound. I'd really like it to help of course because at the gigs I do you have to have a speaker system of some sort.

Thanks again, I'll try that along with the other suggestions. One trouble is, I'm not enough of a sound analyst to be able to tell you what exactly might be wrong with a sound sometimes, I just know when it's not good, to me at least. And with the keyboard alone with which to compare it's fairly obvious when the sound changes for the worst.

Have a good one, and thanks again so much. By the way, I am using the Mono/left output of the keyboard, not even trying for the stereo part with the L1, especially not right now.

I noticed when just for the heck of it I used both outputs of the keyboard, as in what would be a stereo with the proper setup as opposed to the L/R mono output, I get a lot more output at the same volume, and for the life of me it does appear to have a bit more substance or richness also.

drumr I did connect directly to the L1 bypassing the T1 and thank you for that suggestion, but my ears think it's the same as going through the T1 provided it's set "flat" or "Keyboard General Keys" as Mike suggested. I had actually used the system that way before my T1 came in. So thank you for that suggestion which let me know that at least the T1 is not hurting me with its so many settings I could have had messed up somewhere.

I'm still having trouble and experimenting because so far everything I've done is just kinda nickels and dimes, not a very big difference anything. I wish something I did would be like "wow", and there it was, but so far not.

I had read on the board someone using the Accordion setting for keyboards and I tried that for a while, but it is nearly too much, especially in bass unless I trim it back down.

Right now I'm settled on the Keyboard "flat" deal Mike suggested. It seems to be as good as I've come up with. And who knows? Maybe this is it, all I can do. I guess experimentation is the key now, but the truth of it is I don't really know what so many of the parameters of the T1 do, plus there's always the personal preference part to add in. What one likes another doesn't etc.

Another thought is that my Kawai CP-175 does indeed sound better through the same setting, so maybe this is all I'm gonna get with the Yamaha PSR-3000. The 175 is SO much harder to haul though!

Thanks so much everyone, I'm still trying.

Ya, putting two signals into one, which are the same is the same effect as double recording a vocal on two seperate tracks and playing it back through one source. It's a natural chorus effect.

I've done a lot of experimenting; output from the one L/LR output into the T1, then just into the L1 direct, then using both outputs (L & R) into two channels on the T1. In all cases where the T1 was involved I ran as suggested the Keyboard general keys, flat everything.

It does appear so far it's just nickels and dimes, except the two outputs into to channels of the T1 give noticeably more oomph, volume, and has a little richer sound. The volume settings had to be reduced somewhat in that configuration, but, it ties up two channels on the T1.

But other than that, let me ask, since I've read several times keyboards don't need presets, thus there are few from which to choose, then what's the difference between even going through the T1 at all if it's gonna be flat, and just going to the L1 direct in the first place reckon?

It's plenty strong and rich just going direct to the L1. I'm just wondering if the T1 is even doing anything for me with a keyboard at all in the keyboard setting and flat.

Hey Pon I use a psr 3000 at chuch with L1 classic and I use a Korg PA 800/ roland fantom combo on live gigs. There's a lot of information on using psr 3000 and changing eq setting on keyboard for use with L1 on this web site: www.psrtutorial.com I never have adjusted to the sound of my keys through L1 so when playing live, what I do is send left output from keyboard to L1 and right output to my small little mackie SRM 150 on the mic stand. This give me that stereo sound kind of what you'll hear when using on board speakers. In church I just leave on psr3000 speakers. It seem that in the audience the keys sound fine, but it's just easier to play better when you sound awesome to yourself. The audience can't hear stereo separation anyways. This is just the way I do it and works for me.

Aloha from Hawaii,

Barett

Barett I appreciate that so much! That's what I long to hear, is the experience and sharing of others, for that's how we got a handle on this blank screen scenario our T1s suffered.

I would guess using the Classic you'd be more or less where I am bypassing the T1 by just plugging into the base, or the L1.

I do indeed thank you so much, and for the link, I'll check that out, didn't even know there was one.

I wouldn't characterize the PSR-3000 as being a particularly awesome sound on its own, but it is very good, and so far, better on its own by far than any setting I've found on the Bose, but I'm hoping with everybody's help, input and suggestions, I can change that. And I thank you so much for yours.

I have to have something because the volume of the onboard speakers on the keyboard won't do for any gig, or Church as you mention, I just wish I could have the volume and output of the Bose while at the same time the quality of the sound when the keyboard's on its own.

Thank you again so much, I appreciate all the help.

God Bless

(Gosh, must be tough in Hawaii! I guess you just 'suffer' it out!)

Hi Pon,

did you ever try two L1, one left to the keyboard and the other right to the keyboard?
I guess you'll get at least the same sound quality as the PSR-3000 on its own or even a better sound.

Therefore I can agree with Barett in that you'll get a better stereo sound and be much more inspired, but the audience will only get the summed mix either way.

Wolfgang

Thanks so much BlackForestMan. Well, do you mean connecting to two L1s, because I only have one system. The only way I've tried connecting the two outputs (stereo) of the PSR-3000 was through two channels of the T1, the only way I can with only one system.

That was my best sound but it ties up half the T1 and is honestly not much different than one connection from the PSR-3000 using the L/LR Mono output directly into the L1 bottom unit.

Thanks so much for all the thoughts and ideas, I appreciate them.

Hi Pon,

sorry if I had not clearly expressed what I mean.

Sitting just in front of a PSR-3000 you hear a stereo sound field with optimal distances from the internal speakers. That's the reason why it sounds so good, - you get the illusion of playing an accoustic grand or whatever.

You will get the same or even better (because more low end) impression, if you send the keyboards L-signal to the 1st L1 and the R-signal to a 2nd L1 (or if not available, a little box or monitor.
If you place them with equal distance besides the keyboard you will get the expected sound.

BUT that's not what the audience will hear.
If you put only one L1 (with left mono signal) a few meters (e.g. 10-20 ft.) away from you, you get a very similar but "natural stereo" (= depending on the room accoustic), - and that's finally what audience will hear.

Some of the L1 users here are using two L1 in stereo-mode, if they are playing solo piano without further instruments. But they use only one L1 for playing in a orchestra etc.

Wolfgang

I'm with you Wolfgang, and I sure thank you.

I'm not nearly so hung up though on stereo as I am a similar good rich sound coming from my L1 as I hear from the on board speakers of the keyboard. As you mention, stereo requires proper separation etc. etc., and I'd rather all of the audience to hear it all. I just don't see the point of stereo, even if it could be accomplished, in most gigs.

I did notice a big gain in sound volume and richness of tone though when I use Both outputs of the keyboard, and not just the L/LR. Further, I read on a keyboard discussion board of the explanation of that. It was said there that where some of the right signal is transferred to the left in that case, not all of it. That surprised me. He said the wiring diagram supports that as well as the ear. He said both outputs should be used regardless of whether you're trying to get stereo or not, since you get All the signal. I have operated through the years thinking the L/LR mono output got it all, but they say no.

What I'm wondering now is, if I'm using the T1 in the setting that has been recommended most often, the Keyboard General Keys and everything flat, have I gained anything over simply plugging the keyboard into the L1 direct? Connecting using both the outputs of the keyboard as the keyboard folks say do, has used up half my T1 just for the keyboard.

Thanks so much for the help, it is greatly appreciated.