I am posting for my drummer so and his concern with his TD-20's.
We played again last night he is struggling with getting a good sound out of his system. He uses a L1 Classic and 4 B1's with a Packlite amp. He just can't seem to get a good sound.
1) We had complaints of no low end thump.
2) His drums seem to "mush-out" and not penetrate the mix. They seem to "add" reverb when it gets louder or when he starts playing more aggressively. Again, they just don't have a solid, cutting sound to penetrate the mix. He uses the Universal setting.
Any input /suggestions would be appreciated.
Drumr, drumsgreg and tberry are the guys you want to talk to about the tweaking involved in getting the TD-20 to sound right. I am sure they will be along soon with some great advice but for now you might be interested in this conversation.
Need Feedback from Vdrummers (and Bose)This message has been edited. Last edited by: Starvin,
Thanks for the link starvin, Lots of good info in there.
Steve, your drummer will need to take the L1 home or to a reasonably big room to set all the sounds using the system. Don't let him do it with headphones. Use PS1 channel 3 or 4, so that there is never a preset mistakenly put on the drums (I've done that a few times...awful).
I'm a little surprised that you are hearing a lack of kick drum with 4-B1s! I think that's probably due to the Roland's over-boosting of the high end of their kicks. Their stock samples are very "clicky". I had to roll off highs a lot! And boost bass frequencies. Stack the B1s 4 high and put them close to your drummer.
Now, on the other hand...we play I Think We're Alone Now, and it has a bass drum break after each chorus, and I am always wishing for a little more in that one-bar space, and have learned to manually raise the kick fader on that part. It's a hassle, but it works. The kick is the one drum that doesn't have a lot of dynamics, it's mostly impossible to get really quiet, then really loud on a Roland kick, it's pretty much one volume, I ride the fader from song to song.
It's too bad the Roland sounds aren't good for the L1 out of the box, but that's life. I wish the people at V-expressions would get an L1. I have two of the V-expressions packages, but wouldn't advise that you waste your money on them. I started with the standard Roland preset "My V-kit" and built from there.
Forum drummer, Dstar79 had the same problems, he stuggled, but is now doing fine with only 2-B1s! Which blows my mind. He hasn't been around much lately...but you might PM him.
Ditto on what Drumr said. Try turning the ambience off and really dry up the reverb. Don't trust that great sound you get from the headphones, it's nothing like what you get out of the PA. Don't be surprised if you have to tweak the eq a little at each venue, seems there is always something to adjust. The Bose system is the best thing I've heard for the Vdrums, and I've tried a lot of different setups. Just a thought .... How LOUD are the rest of the instruments? Maybe it's not the V's....
Thanks for the info guys..
we were around 12:30 to 1:00 on the Master volumes with proper gain staging.
I think maybe what tberry is asking is "are the guitars burying the drums?" It's certainly possible. In my trio, the guitar and bass can both outdo me volume-wise. The attack of the drum sounds will push the L1 into compression before they are able to out-volume a guitar. However, we always make sure the vocals are on top, that pretty much sets the level for all other instruments. We back instruments off to make sure vocal is in front. Instruments run directly in will always be capable of outdoing the vocal mic. So if we all stay behind the vocal, all instruments should be capable of an even volume with the others.
Steve, after re-reading my above post, I seem to come off as a Mr Know-it-all "this is the only way to do it". I'm sure it's not, but these are some things that have helped me and others. And I'm the first to admit that after a year and a half with E-drums, I'm still not totally satisfied, and am still looking for better tone and more *definition* from my drum sounds. It never ends.
You guys might try what we just did...three gigs with real drums, which I loved, dynamically. But when I went back to the E-drums last weekend, the other guys were ecstatic and I have to admit, the Es felt a lot better after the bashing my ears got for those 3 gigs.
Thanks for the input and it never crossed my mind of you being a Mr Know it All....I view you as a musician with alot more experience with the L1 's than me. No problem.
Tonight, we are setting up again in a VFW Hall and my drummer wants to try hooking up some 18's to get a feel for this type of set-up.
He has the age old problem, "if it doesn't sound good to you, it is hard to play." I understand, I may break out my Boogie and try micing again. This all adds work but it may add the enjoyment back in alittle.
Having a sub to kick you in the pants is very important for a drummer. If I don't have it, my leg gets cramped from trying to hit to hard. 4-B1s works for me. Adding an 18" will certainly give him a bump. Will he be carrying it (and the heavy power amp) in and out by himself?
We just got done with setting up and playing.
First, we worked on the drums and we got them sounding pretty good. We took off all verb, ambience, compression, and etc..
Then we hooked up the 18's and worked on the sound for the kick. Couldn't get any air moving. Then they found shelving and mic placement. That was it! They got a good 80hz sound that moved the pant legs.
Anyway, we will keep trying. The bass player also hooked up a eq to his signal and got a good sound too.
I think if I get my Boogie back in the mix, we will all be alittle happier.
Our bassist just switched from an old Yamaha bass to a vintage Fender Jazz...it sounds so good that he doesn't need his POD, to bad it's just a loaner.
I got same problem as "srmbr", no low-end. I tried both from td-20 (mono) out to channel 1 (preset 00) -> no good sound, then to ch3/ch4 -> same result.
Then, I plug to mixer, output (L+R) from mixer to channel 1 (preset00) -> same result, flat very weak kick sound
Then, I have to plug the drum to house system with subwoofer, but whole very hard to listen the drum thru' in house system
I think maybe the drum has stereo samples, then it cancel out the signal.
Has anyone tried a different eq setting from the Bose. I have own a Classic and a model II and to boost the bass a little I have found that the low volume dj EQ setting has help with my sound. I think that it is a smiley curve that boosts the lows and highs and helps me get a better sound to me. Just a thought that you might try. Thumper
Another trick I have used with the Roland thru a Bose is to pan all my drums and cymbals to the right and have only my bass drum in the left channel. This way you can concentrate on EQ for just the bass drum. I have saved several setups like this in my module for just playing thru tha Bose. I also have several sets saved for when I go thru a regular PA that pans the drums normally left center right. I hope this might help with your sound journey. It is never ending thumper
I'm really surprised that anyone is having a hard time finding a good sounding kit with low end thump out of the td20. My drummer uses a Td3 into channel 3 of my L1 and it sound thunderous. Absolutely no problem cutting through. I think the td3 has many of the same sound samples as the td20?
Only real problem we ever had, is that when playing real loud we had to adjust his gain down, becauase cymbals would sound harsh.
If you turn around, you wouldn't know it was an electric kit.
I'm running an L1 with 4 bass modules and a paclight.
We did have to go through several of the sounds to find just the right ones. For the kick we went for more of a tight metal one with a lot of high end smack. The high end kick may be the one you are looking for. I found the low boomy ones easily blended too much into the overall mix.
This thread is packed full of valueable information thanks to all the contributors.
Is it possible to capture this and other TD20 threads into a Wiki topic for VDrums? It would be great to have a Wiki toolbox for specific intruments. I am willing to give it a try myself if you point me in right direction.
Lead vocals, bass, keys, acc gtr
L1m2 and T1
Blue EnCORE 300 mic
Composite Acoustics GXI guitar
Warwick Alien Acoustic Bass
Washburn XB400 electric bass
Roland RD300GX keys
Here is a link to some quick video tutorials about creating content for the wiki.
Wiki Video Tutorials.
Be sure to let me know if you want a hand anywhere along the way.
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