Up until now, I've always said that Roland V-drums need a lot of tweaking to work with the L1.
I think I might have been off the mark.
I sat up three L1 systems for a power trio using a set of Roland TD6s last weekend.
The drummer has not tweaked the sounds, and said he really didn't know how, he was used to using a stock kit.
To me, standing on stage, it sounded totally over-reverbed and I had my doubts about how good they would sound.
Even the kick drum had reverb...I thought "this is going to sound mushy".
Once the band started playing though, the drums blended in very nicely, they sounded like a danged CD.
Punchy, clean, sizzling, powerful. Of course the drummer was pretty darned good too, he'd have made a tin can sound good.
So...before jumping to conclusions about changing the Vdrum settings, get a good listen from the audience point of view with the whole band playing, it could make a big difference.
My band played 60's music, and I liked a dry sound, but I never heard my kit from the audience standpoint.
Maybe I was missing the boat.
This band was a power rock band and the stock kit did great...so maybe it depends on the style of music.
But it's best to really listen as an audience member before hacking up your sounds.
I just wanted to pass on this tidbit.
Every time I hear my L1s from the audience, I learn something new.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Drumr,
I really agree with this. The VDrums are the best-sounding, most "produced" drum sound I've ever heard or played with. My band's original format included VDrums and the game tapes were amazing.
That drummer (Rod McCarthy) later lamented "I really miss my acoustic kit", however. Now in the band's its final form, Tom Beier is happy playing "real" drums. Amplification using the L1 is almost all kick with a slight "freshening" of the top of the kit, mostly with HF. The recording of "Life of Crime" (in "at the gig...") sounds really great to me but the recording is picking up both acoustic energy of the drum kit as well as what we amplified.
It really works either way if you know what you want. I guess this (knowing what you want) alone gets you there.
|Bose Live Music Team Lead Rep|
Guitar, Vocals, Bass, Percussion, Noise
I'm a closet drummer and I have to say that the Roland TD-20 has the greatest drum sounds I've ever heard. You're on the money, Drumr, about putting it in context of mixed with the band: it sounds like a CD. Plus, the little detail of being able to dial in a small amount of snare drum buzz when hitting the toms just captures it all.
I had a great experience recently. The drummer in my band started as a "toned down power drummer", but was still hitting relatively hard. The last rehearsal we made EVERYBODY turn down. He wasn't playing with brushes, but he was barely hitting the drums (in comparison with how he normally played).
By the end of a 4 hour rehearsal, everyone had comments about not being fatigued in arms, ears, or voice. And if we can pull off that level of playing on stage and then amplify it, we'll get more use out of our L1 systems.
Great comments & great to have you back on the forum. You're making my drummer want to reconsider his VDrums.
Is that a Breedlove in your avatar?
You mean he has them and hasn't tried them yet??
No, he used them last summer with his Classic & decided he didn't like them. Unfortunately he sold them.
I've also been trying to get him to try the Roland hand drum, but he's getting a great sound out of a djembe with with one of David Enke's pickups on it. I just wish it didn't have so much acoustic output!
I've been trying to get him on the forum for several months. He has some good ideas & also would be an asset to our community.
Well, I can see why he might not have liked them in context, if your music, when using a drummer, is acoustic guitar based.
E-drums aren't good for subtle nuance like you can get from acoustic instruments,
but they're nice for the wide variety of available percussion samples.
I have a real love/hate relationship with my electronics.
Love the ease of set up and smooth overall sound, hate the loss of intricacies and explosives.
That would be true, except he was playing with a power trio all last summer & not with me. You're right though, it was the nuances he missed. I would give that up, personally, to get rid of the acoustic volume onstage though. You guys are beating yourselves up with some pretty high dB's at close range.
|Bose Live Music Team Lead Rep|
Guitar, Vocals, Bass, Percussion, Noise
Yeah, Tom, that's a Breedlove 12 string. Been doing solo shows with that thing and it just sounds so full.
I think V-Drums and guitar emulation devices are better when used in a full ensemble context, where nuance isn't the main concern. If I play my Line 6 stuff solo, I hear "digititis" and artifacts and all that. If I play in a band, well, I had a guy come up to me one night after I had played a Variax and PodXTLive swearing my all digital system sounded every bit as good as the $12,000 all vintage Fender system he had just purchased. Not if you play them side by side, but with 2 guitars, drums, harmonica, vocals all going on and doing the blues, who could tell?
New L1 Classic owner (2 B1's). Had the Bose experience with Tom (bassist bud) who has 4 of these.
I use a Roland TD6 (rubber drums) and now want to start crafting my sound (picking the best sounds for the L1). What pre-set should I use? or should I go thru the Line in? ... and will there be a noticable difference? It would also be great to add a real snare (SM57) and a ride/crash overhead mic as well.
Also what about spacing of the B1's... does it help (me) to have one on either side of my drums. And how about dividing up the stick into 2 vertical columns (w/ a cable), also on either side of my drums. I'm not sure I like hearing myself off center (placing the L1 directly behind me blocks the sound projection). Haven't placed the L1 behind me the 7' recommended (haven't the room).
That's it for now.
Follow Your Bliss
I'm not a drummer, but from what I've read and heard from those who are drummers:
Crafting the sound is mostly an "in the TD6" function ... unless you separate the instruments inside the TD6 to separate outputs (e.g.: snare out the Left output only and all the others to the Right output only). Otherwise, you can only consider Presets on the L1 which affect the overall sound. (Not to be confused with presets within the TD6, of course.)
You'll get the best volume/sound from the B1's by keeping them together.
Pete (Drumr on this Forum) often sits on a 2-high stack of B1's to both save space and to "feel the beat".
There isn't a convenient way to split the column -- not the least of which is that it'll compromise a good deal of the "line array" benefits of the column.
Placement of the B1's is a significant issue, depending on the room. Getting a longer B1 cable so you have more placement flexibility between the column and the B1's is a useful "tool" in getting the right sound for some rooms.
I find (no matter what instrument I'm using), that if I'm closer than ~4' the "mix" can get a little weird, and so if I can't get it at least 4' behind I'll move it to the side (and still a little behind, if possible) to get >4' of distance ... this re-positioning can make the B1 sound louder to me, too, without making much, if any, difference in the rest of the room.
You may be interested to read, if you haven't already, this article in the L1 Wiki about B1 Positioning.
(Edit: fixed a couple of typos.)This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dan Cornett,
Thanks Dan.... it's all helpful.
Will experiment with B1 placement....Love the idea of sitting on them!! Gives new meaning to 'Bone-Phones' (remember those?)
Still I would like opinions on the eq settings for a TD6. Is there a new setting for such (not sure yet what sw version I have in the L1).
Follow Your Bliss
I use a TD-12, and have heard the TD-6SX, a nice kit.
There is probably no for sure EQ setting that will work for one and all, however, I run "FLAT" preset.
I roll a bit of high end off the cymbals, and often tune them down a bit lower in pitch.
The most used tool for drum samples in the Roland units seems to be the "Muffling" functions.
I use those quite a lot.
Most of us here also cut back on the reverb settings in the TD modules, they are a bit too much.
Depending on the room, I will dampen or open up the bass drum using muffling settings.
Same with toms.
I run mono into a single L1 Model II with 4-B1s stacked 2x2 on either side of the Model IIs slim power stand.
When using the Classic L1 with the rounded stand, I put all four on one side, 2x2, or 1x4.
Sitting on a couple of them is nice.
Here are some video clips of our band with E-drums.
I hope this helps.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Drumr,
I'll try flat and build from there. I still haven't done much with customizing sounds within the sound module(s) yet. Lots to do there. I'm excited to finially craft a sound that will remain consistant. Too long I have been at the mercy of bad sound systems and even some WITHOUT MONITORS! Not a good thing when you have rubber drums.
Follow Your Bliss
That would be a horrible situation.
It reminds me of my Roland drum kit back in the '80s running through a Roland KB-100 Keyboard amp.
That was only a cut above no monitor at all.
Hello Drumr and fellow L1 users,
It's been quite a while since I posted on this forum, went back to acoustics for a while, but always used my Bose systems. A couple of years ago I sold my Roland gear and purchased the Yamaha DTXtreme III kit. I've been very happy with it and the pairing with the L1 system. I just upgraded to the new DTX XP Silicone pads on my Yamaha kit.
These pads are pretty amazing. The Edrum world is all about personal preferences ... and to me, this kit is the best that I have ever had. The pads feel more to me like real drums, and more responsive than my previous rubber or mesh pads. If your in the shopping mode, check this kit out.
Anyway, the other night I splurged and used two L1 systems for my rig. Ran stereo for the first time. I've always been to lazy to take two systems just for me. I don't know if anyone else noticed a difference but I did! The sampled sounds were so much cleaner and just more present. Pete, good to see you still banging away! Still felt like I had to do the cymbal fix (lower the volume and tune down) on the Yamaha kit just like the Rolands.
Great to see you back here in the drum room, it's been quite a while!
So you went back to A's? What was the reason...popular demand, like mine?
How did that go for you? Did the band remain able to keep a handle on the volume, or did the A's kick it up a notch?
Checked out the Yamahas...very nice features.
I'm still not knocked out by their videos on Youtube.
I can never hear the cymbals, and the snare is stiff...still hear the machine gun effect, even with triple zones.
Not overwhelmingly, but it's still there.
That's cool that you finally tried a stereo setup, I still haven't tried it.
I'll bet being immersed in the middle of the sound would be sweet!
How many B1s did you have for that?
I've used my new TrapKAT XL a few times over this last year since going acoustic, nursing home and small restaurant gigs.
The new KAT is 1/4 of the weight of the old one, but the foam pads that replaced the one piece rubber pad is not as responsive to buzz rolls, it can't do it, and I was forwarned by the inventor before my purchase.
There was a trade off to get the weight down, the new pad is like the ones on the MalletKat.
Still, I'm happy with it, and plan to use it again when I can no longer handle the weight and labor of real drums.
Yea, I guess it was mid-life crisis. I'm still involved in the backline business and got a couple of riders for Yamaha acoustic kits. I ended up buying a 7 pc Oak Custom kit (22" bass, and a 18" bass for jazz gigs. Then I found out they were dropping the Hip Gig kits so I got one of the Al Foster kits. So I had to play them. I'm involved in a couple of groups now that are focused on low volume gigs. Business after hours, private parties in homes or businesses, Making more money on these small gigs than on the big equipment laden jobs.
But I'm back on the E's. The bands I play with seem to tolerate what ever configuration I play. They are so jaded, sometimes I wonder why they keep playing.
I agree about the videos, I don't know that I've seen one that does the kit justice as far as live recordings. I'm really happy with the whole kit.
I used 4 B1s with the stereo setup, more than enough for the gig. The stereo set up really seemed to open up the samples. I didn't have any problems with the mono set up, but it was a gig close to home so I said what the heck, load the extra Bose.
The TrapKat is a cool concept, and I had one for a short time. Just couldn't get used to the layout of the pads, and the only way I could get a hi hat that felt good to me was to use my Roland Hat (that I had at the time). Which meant taking the hi hat stand that I could never get in a comfortable place.
I was hoping that the Yamaha Multi 12 Pad would allow me to have a small one trip kit, but I couldn't seem to achieve the same sensitivity that the Zak Bond (Yamaha) videos demonstrated.
Sent it back after 2 weeks of tweaking.
I Forgot! You are right.. still some machine gunning. But, I can live with it.
Good to converse again.
Oh, so am I, only the L1s keep me going.
When I can no longer pick it up, I'm done.
I suppose I'll get a few more years by switching to the Compacts and maybe a Handsonic, but when I can no longer move them around, I'm really finished.
After you mentioned them, I looked all around at the Hipgig kits, pretty nice.
Starvin is looking into a set of Whitney Nesting drums...they are really interesting too.
It's tempting to buy some lighter or more compact drums, but I'm really about down to the minimum now.
I did a gig last Sunday with just a kick, snare, rack tom, hat, splash, and ride.
Took along an Ashiko too, put it in my floor tom's spot, but it didn't fit the music, a hand drum still can't cover it all for a pop group.
Still looking for that holy grail.
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