Provided L1 sound for a concert this past weekend. Was my first time mic'ing drums using the Sure SM57's out-of-phase. Sonor drum kit was (if facing the stage) on the left facing center stage, well out in front of the L1. This caused the floor tom to be the closest drum to the audience - a good thing I think, since it needs the most help being heard.

I had only one T1 which was designated for lead singer and her acoustic guitar and mandolin. But since I had one channel left, I plugged in the Sure Beta52A kick mic into the T1 using the corresponding preset and used the Aux output to send the signal back to the Bass players L1 / 4B1's.

The differential 57 was plugged into it's own L1/2B1's with the corresponding preset. It provided just enough sizzle for the highs, a little more depth for the snare and a little low end for the floor tom. The sound was primarily acoustic and the drums were well tuned. But the mics just added that extra presence and I had absolutely plenty of gain before feedback. The rest of the band sounded great too, but wanted to report on the drums.

John

Thanks for trying that out and letting us know John.
I'm thinking of using acoustics this weekend.
Where did you put the two mics?
Any pics?

On another note...in your opinion, did the drums at Cuchara seem need any mic'ing?

P

Mic placement: One 57 below crash pointing to snare slightly above snare (more or less level) sitting between hi-hat and 1st tom. Other SM57 below the ride between Tom 2 and floor tom slightly above and angled slightly down toward the floor tom.

Hope to have pics - a friend took some, but I haven't seen them yet.

As for the drums at Cuchara, I don't really think mics were needed. [edit: the Kick was great and very much needed.]However, sometimes the ride got lost and I was wanting a little more of the toms. But that's a personal preference thing. The concert I described was in considerably larger room with between 200 and 250 people in the audience.

John

quote:

However, sometimes the ride got lost and I was wanting a little more of the toms. But that's a personal preference thing.

That was exactly what I wanted to know and expected John, thanks.

Outside of the door-prize drum-rolls, I used Multi-Rod sticks, and they are weak on the ride, and the toms as well unless I hit a "rimshot" on them...like I do the snare. They seem fine for hat and snare timekeeping though, I like them alot.

Surprisingly, in the video I have, the drums are all over everything...not good, too loud, even when I used brushes lightly on "I Saw The Light". I made conscious effort all night to really keep the drums down, as I was blending with acoustic instruments for the most part.

I also noticed in the video that those floor tom rolls I did are all one-volume, when in reality I was bringing the dynamic levels up and down quite a bit. The camera compresses much more than I had thought, or more than it used too, something was different.

It was not only the drums though, the video in general didn't turn out all that well. Nothing near what I heard from the audience. Maybe from now on I'll remember the beauty that I heard rather than capture it and analyze (be haunted by) it later.

I'm very glad that the differential method worked so well for you. I hope to try it out again soon.
P

Glad to provide the feedback. I thought the drums sounded great live and I was impressed with your chops. I sort of chickened out on playing. I wanted to sit in and groove for a while, but I could tell you knew (or seemed to know) many of the songs and were providing great rythm, so I skipped it. Maybe next time.

John

quote:

I plugged in the Sure Beta52A kick mic into the T1 using the corresponding preset and used the Aux output to send the signal back to the Bass players L1 / 4B1's.

Hi John
I was wondering if you used the kick gate at all. If you did I would be interested in your thoughts.

quote:

The differential 57 was plugged into its own L1/2B1's with the corresponding preset. It provided just enough sizzle for the highs, a little more depth for the snare and a little low end for the floor tom. The sound was primarily acoustic and the drums were well tuned. But the mics just added that extra presence and I had absolutely plenty of gain before feedback.

I use only 1 Ksm27 overhead and I am getting the same results as you mention above.

Yes, I used the kick gate and 4B1's. It ROCKED. Zero feedback cranked all the way.

John

Hey John
I love the kick gate too. I’m only using 2 b1s most of the time but I have kicked it up to 8 b1s. It was way too much Bass for me but The Kick Gate aloud me to use it at a high volume with no bass feedback and no real bleed from the rest of the kit.
Rick

quote:

Originally posted by Drumr:
Thanks for trying that out and letting us know John.
I'm thinking of using acoustics this weekend.
Where did you put the two mics?
Any pics?

On another note...in your opinion, did the drums at Cuchara seem need any mic'ing?

P

Here is a link to a Picasa web album from the concert. Kind of hard to see the mic placement on the snare, but the one near the floor tom is visible.

http://picasaweb.google.com/sweetjohn/MarieMillerConcert

John

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
I sort of chickened out on playing. I wanted to sit in and groove for a while...Maybe next time.
John

John, I sincerely hope I wasn't hogging the drums, if so, it was unintentional.
I knew you played drums, but forgot, you need have only done like Tom Beier did and just jump in there!

Jams are always a bit of a problem for me being a lefty and all, but I will always be willing to help turn the tubs for someone else.
The nice thing about my drumming is that I don't (know how to) play anything that anyone else in the audience couldn't play.
I keep it simple, no intimidation, unlike what I've felt, up against by some of the greats I've been in the room with.
So hopefully no one feels left out of the action.
P

quote:

Originally posted by Drumr:

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
I sort of chickened out on playing. I wanted to sit in and groove for a while...Maybe next time.
John

John, I sincerely hope I wasn't hogging the drums, if so, it was unintentional.
I knew you played drums, but forgot, you need have only done like Tom Beier did and just jump in there!

Jams are always a bit of a problem for me being a lefty and all, but I will always be willing to help turn the tubs for someone else.
The nice thing about my drumming is that I don't (know how to) play anything that anyone else in the audience couldn't play.
I keep it simple, no intimidation, unlike what I've felt, up against by some of the greats I've been in the room with.
So hopefully no one feels left out of the action.
P

No worries at all, Jeff. You weren't hogging. You were having fun (and playing great!). I could have jumped in - I knew you wouldn't have minded. It was my own fault. Next time, I'm bringin' sticks, though.

John

Hello all,

I've been using my L1 Double Bass for my Roland drumset for a couple of years now and am very happy with the sound. I also play an acoustic set some of the time. I've alway's used a truckload of mike's on my acoustic and ran them through a snake. I'm considering using my L1.

I am very interested in using the dual SM-57 approach, however, I play a 7-piece drum set with 3 crash cymbals and a ride. I'm wondering if 2 mikes would have enough coverage to sound good. It would be great to just have my D112 and 2 57's. Simple is a good plan.

I've also thought about using 1 overhead (Shure KSM 27) instead of the 57's. If anyone has any experience with a larger drum set please let me know what worked well for you. I usually play moderately loud at venues of 200-500 seats. I've been told by sound guys that I'm not a real heavy hitter.

Any help would be appreciated,

Marv

Hi MJS
I haven't used the dual SM-57 approach yet but I have been using the single KSm27 overhead for about a year now. It gives a very natural sound (pretty much what you are hearing while sitting on the drums) and projects that sound evenly to the rest of the room. I am using a five piece kit with six cymbals in a variety of bands from fairly loud blues band, medium volume swing band and a very soft playing trio.
If you are looking to get that Roland or studio processed sound I would suggest buying a T1 along with your classic. This would give you five presets to play with.
I hope this helps
Rick

Hey Marv
This is another option that I have been hopping to try for a while now .TheEarthworks DK25/L with my L1, now that I have the T1. They are on my “to get next" list. Just click on the Red yellow and white CD and in about three days you should get a demo CD, check it out.
Rick

Hey all,

Thanks for the replies.

I've also thought about the Earthworks mike's. A bit of an investment though.

I'm not as sure about using a small diaphram mike for an overhead but it would be fun to try it out.

I'll just have to try out a few different ways and see what works best. The nice thing about the 57's is that I can pick up a couple of those for next to nothing. The KSM is a little more, but they should hold their value if I end up not liking it.

Time will tell,

Marv

Hey John
I tried the dual SM57 approach today and John you are right it sounds great. I think I will be using this for the louder gigs the Ksm27 sounds better for the jazz stuff mostly because you get more cymbals which is what you want in this situation.
MJS
While trying the SM57 approach I added a few toms (from my son's kit) to make a 7 piece. I used different positioning with acceptable results. The best sound for say a rock or pop band in my opinion was this combination. Using the sm57 differential preset I put 1 sm57 between the first 2 toms the other sm57 between the next 2 toms and I added a beta 52 (because that is all I had ) on the floor tom using the general kick preset and the kick gate set at "threshold -16db Gain 4.6" Woh! What a great floor tom sound. It reminded me of that John Bonham trick of using the floor tom as an extra kick drum. I did not mic the snare it came through like gang busters on its own.
I hope this helps.
Rick
PS I used a Beta 91 on the Kick. a total of 4 microphones and 3 presets with a T1.All less than the cost of the Earthworks microphones.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Starvin,

I have really been anxious to use the D-57 method, but every time I'm packing up for the gig, I look at the TrapKAT, then I look at all the drums, stands, cases, cymbals, mics, cords, & mic stands. Then I load up the TrapKAT. I just can't seem to bring myself to do it. It's odd, in the old days I would go to a ton of extra work for the sake of experimenting. Now I just want to get their as simply as possible, and play as much music as possible, with no time out for extra work.

I hear you Pete or should I say I envy you Pete. Unfortunately for some of us Edrums is not an option. If I could get work using them, I would already own a set.
You have to remember I live in an area where these are a common site.
Rick

I hear ya!

Pretty surprising thing last weekend, you remember my gig report with the rock band?
They reported in their own forum that they loved the KAT, I was surprised to find such acceptance in the genre.
Loud seems to work with E-drums, but I'm sure light, jazzy, intricate...all those would be tough.

Gee!
I can understand the Jazz guys but the blues guys are just as bad and I hardly use brushes at all with them. One band I play with won't hire drummers that have anything but North American drums. Some times I feel like I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Way back in the Late 90’s (we are talking electronics so that is way back)I owned a set of Ddrum 3 they sounded great except for the cymbals .I paid close to 10 grand for the kit but other than recordings no one would let me use them. I finally sold them for about half of what I paid. Needles to say I won’t travel that road again soon.
$300.00 for 2 new sm57s.The 57 differential preset on the T1 and a Phase reverse Y cable to get the sound those blues guys want is something I am more likely to do.
Rick