Hello,

Would love some info from the people at Bose on an issue I am having. When the volume is at a loud level, and I talk on the microphone OVER the loud music, the volume of the music drops quite drastically. It is like the Bose knows the difference between my voice and the music? I have had music playing VERY loud, and there was no distortion, so I know the speakers and amp can handle the volume of my loud voice mixed with the loud music. But as soon as I try to speak over the loud music, it drops the volume ALOT. This is not a good thing because I just want to talk over the loud music like "Put your hands up" without any drop in volume of the music. Any info would be appreciated.

I have 2 L1M2 4 B1's
I have a Shure PGX wireless mic
This has happened exactly the same on my Urei 1601S mixer and a Pioneer DJM-800 mixer.

Warren

This is not normal. Sounds like you have some sort of overload or short and the system is going into protective mode.

I have experienced this twice with the Bose system first when I had a bad input cable, and second due to a liquid spill that caused a short.

I would call Technical support to get help with this issue. I suggest you have it hooked up an running before you call so they can walk you through it.

Just a thought, You might want to check your cable from the wireless unit and the T1

I only experienced this with a DJ MIXER that had that setting. I don't use a regular "DJ" mixer, but do you?

If so, then maybe you need to flip the switch so it doesn't do that!

Hey guys,

I do not use a T1 and the "talk over" button on my mixer was not on. Any other ideas on what is casuing this?

Thanks

Hello Warren, I thought I was the only one having this issue. The same thing occurs for me at higher volumes when someone is singing the volume will drop at times. There is also compression (or seems like it) at higher volumes just with music but really noticable while someone is singing. I also use a wireless mic.

Interesting, Billie and I both use RE-2 EV 767 wireless mic's on chan's 1 & 2, with a bit of reverb, a guitar in a VL4 on chan 3 and sound tracks in on USB to chan 4/5 and have never had that happen. The vocals, don't bother the tracks or the guitar volume.

We crank at some pretty good volume. I would guess it's your mixer.

In fact when I announce something over tracks, I have to turn them down manually.

This is all going through the T1, L1 MII and 2 B1's

I know Bob has been having problems on this for quite some time.

Could we get some input from the Bose folks on this one.

Similar problems here since day one (5 different T1's and 4 L1'-2's.

In my band, I run my vocal (w/harmonizer) and electric guitar. If we're at our loudest volumes (Cream), the vocal tends to override the guitar. That is, the guitar virtually drops out at certain points and returns when the singing pauses.

If we're at lesser overall volumes, this hasn't been an issue at all.

JD

PS.....not using compression or wireless.
EV767a w/reverb
JD

Thanks for the responses, anyone else with any input? Can anyone from Bose explain how the limiting and compression works on the L1 model 2?

Thanks

Warren, have you tried gain staging. Too hot of a signal input can cause compression.

Hi Warren,

Could you explain your exact setup.

What mixer are you using? Where is the L1 trim set? Is the L1 input signal LED red?

or are you using a T1?

Any info would be helpful.

Craig

Craig : Would you mind calling me on this? I have all the data you need (and more) as Warren and I have been working on this and I'm stumped. It makes no sense.

Here is the bottom line. At high output music volume, he keys his mic to speak over the top. The voice via mic is booming yet the music volume drops off, then will come back up when done speaking.

There is no clipping signal on the L1 M2. There is no T1 involved. It happens even with two separate makes and models of mixers, one with the voice over (deactivated) and the other doesn't have the feature at all. Again, it's only at high volume output and it does not effect his voice volume.

Weird, huh?

Hi Warren Scott,

Based on what Cap is describing it sounds like your system is working as designed.

What is happening is that when you play your music at max level and then you introduce something else like a voice, the limiter is kicking in to prevent system distortion (and possible speaker damage). As a result the the level of the entire system is reduced. The addition of your voice is what is putting the system into the limiting state.

I'm suspecting the reason why you are noticing the limiter on the music and not your voice is because when you talk the entire level of the system comes down by xdB and but your voice level will still be relative to the music based on your mixer setting. However when you stop talking the limiter disengages and ramps the music back up to the level it was before you started talking. Essentially the limiter releases and allows the audio to come back to max level.

My advice would be try turning down a bit and see if you still have this problem. I hope this helps.

Craig

Craig:: Wow. That's extremely helpful [and totally wild!!]

One question of concern. Is the clipping light supposed to engage (turn red) or is clipping and limiting two separate and distinct elements?

What indicators can one look for when this condition is being approached so as not to push that last inch?

Hi Cap,

The CLIP LED on the Model II power stand provides you with a status for the input signal. It is possible that you could drive the L1 Model II system to full output without clipping the input. I suspect this is what is happening in this specific case.

Let me know if you need more details.

Craig

Craig: Absolutely invaluable information to have. Thank you several times over.

Craig, thaks for the info. One question though.

I have gotten my 2 L1's VERY loud during sound checks and when I first bought them. I wanted to make sure they could handle the output for a large room and for kids parties. Now there was no clipping or distortion, just extremely loud music (which made me happy). This level was much louder than I have ever played it at a gig. When playing loud music at an event (but not nearly as loud as during soundcheck) and I go to talk over the music, my voice brings the volume down to a pretty low level. I would say the music volume drops by almost half and sometimes the dancers stop dancing and 'listen' to my voice, which is not the reaction or effect I am going for, it is exactly the opposite.

I know the L1's can handle the volume of loud music plus my voice (because I have played LOUDER music volumes). It just makes no sense to me how the L1 can know the difference between my loud voice and the loud music and choose to "limit" and compress one individually from the other. Could it be the extra bass in my voice that causes the limiter to engage?

I could really use some more information. One of the main reasons I bought the L1 Model 2 was because Cap stated it was just a "dumb" amplifier with no processing. I have no need for the automatic settings and tone controls and equilizers of the L1 model 1 and the T1. Since I do alot of loud Bar / Bat Mitzvahs that involve alot of "hyping" and "MCing" during loud music, this is a big problem for me.

Can I have more specifics on how the limiter works? It sounds like other users are having this issue as well. Can the limiter settings be changed? Would a T1 help? It just seems that since these were made and designed with bands and singers in mind, they should be able to handle a decent amount of output. I also understand that the L1's aren't the loudest speakers, but when I say loud, I am talking in your typical country club recpetion hall for a crowd of 40-80 kids and 100 adults. Its just frustrating because I know they can go much louder, but as soon as I speak over the music, down it goes to a much lower level.

Please let me know if you can help me with any of my questions

Thank You

Warren Chambers

Just to clarify this a bit further as we did speak about this in relationship to the Model 1 discusssion

quote:

because Cap stated it was just a "dumb" amplifier with no processing.

as in presets and equalization, to include gain stage fine tuning.The Model 1 also has similar limiters to protect the system. That was the "idiot proofing" we spoke of, that a user cannot blow the system up.

One tweak recommended to Classic and Model 1 users who get the constant red led clipping light when vocalizing, is to adjust the mic eq as follows:

1) bass setting = -20% below flat;
2) midrange setting = flat
3) high setting = +10% to +%15% above flat

I too have a boomy voice with substantial low end resonance. This setting model is crucial when using presets 57 or 58, especially in a tight set up area (clipping and low end feedback from behind the speakers).

Maybe this might also work on a Model 2.

This limitation phenomena you've experienced, Warren, is the first I've ever actually heard of or encountered thus makes me a bit suspicious. You?

Leads to another set of questions. Has this done this all the time since delivery or is it a recent onset? Are you using one B1 or two? Does it happen in both cases?

What are your mixer's output eq settings? Your mic's eq settings? Do you adjust them throughout the evening? What is your music source? Does your software have any selectable dynamic processing/limiters built-in and being used?

All these questions are asked because it seems extremely hot low end may be the cause so where is it coming from.