I have been using the L1® with my keyboard for a couple of years now and am very happy with the sound, but am curious about the T1™ and what kind of results keyboard players in particular have had with it.

How many of you use the T1™ with your keyboards? Does it make a significant difference? Most keyboards can adjust their voice’s tones internally, so if there are advantages using the T1™ with the keyboard, what are they?

Hey David - My wife is the keyboard player. We love it. We run the T1 flat. We have even run the keyboard straight into a model II with great results. Roy

Hi David. Like Roy said we normally run the keys flat. Having said that at our last gig my partner who plays the keys wanted a bit more mids and bass. His bass was already maxed on the keyboard so we tweaked the T1 settings running the keys through Channel 4/5 on the T1. This was due to the room we were in. We were in an auditorium with a lot of glass doors and windows and we were on a stage raised from the audience. The ability to tweak is great in situations where the room presents acoustical challenges. Cheers. Brian

Just for the heck of it try the Taylor T5 guitar preset.

I use the T1 with my Motif ES Keyboard. I had that wierd stereo to mono phasing issue and backed off on the mids a bit. it seems to have helped a little.

Hi there !

I asked another music forum (in the keyboard section) about this weird phasing problem with the stereo being summed into "mono".

One reply was this :
"Another option to try before buying more gear is, if you have 2 inputs spare on your PA, to run both left and right channels into your PA but temporarily reverse the contacts on one cable only (thus putting the Left signal out of phase with the Right signal)... this may cure the problem with the thin sound and would only have cost you pennies if it doesn't do the trick. If it does work, then it will be worth getting a DI box (either 2 channel or 2 mono units) or an audio isolation unit that features a phase reverse switch and use that between your piano and he PA."

What do you guys think of this ?

Perhaps I could do the same BUT plug both leads (one with the jack terminals reversed, or a phase reverse switch/box) into both inputs of my T1's channel 4. How about that ?

quote:

Originally posted by snakehips:
... this weird phasing problem with the stereo being summed into "mono"...

Yeah, we've had a few here, too! Here are a couple of such topics: The problem of stereo keyboards... and Bose ... vs. Yamaha... (the latter is rather long with multiple pages)

quote:

..."Another option to try before buying more gear is, if you have 2 inputs spare on your PA, to run both left and right channels into your PA but temporarily reverse the contacts on one cable only (thus putting the Left signal out of phase with the Right signal)... this may cure the problem with the thin sound...

This technique may help -- but be aware that it doesn't really fix the fundamental problem that most sampled stereo sounds introduce a fixed delay between the left & right channels, and a simple phase reversal may not "fix" that to your satisfaction. (See this particular note in the first discussion above for more on this.)

An alternative which you might try with the T1 without having to rewire a cable -- but still requires two separate channels (e.g.: 2 & 3, not the 4/5 "single" channel) -- is to introduce a delay.

(1) Balance the input Trims on the two input channels so that the "middle C" on the keyboard give the same level of input on both channels (you can monitor that on the T1 visually as well as with your ears).

(2) Introduce a delay (short) into one channel only. As the keyboard is played, change the value of the delay a bit to if you can get the 'rich' sound you are trying to re-create.

I haven't had a chance to try this with a T1 yet, so I can't yet be more specific ... thanks for re-visiting this topic, because it's something I had wanted to try, myself!

Notes:
(a) I can see the online simulation of the T1 only has a minimum (digital) delay of 10ms ... I'd prefer to be able to start with a bit less than that for this purpose (because 1 ms ~= 1 ft of distance between the original recording mics).

(b) You could use channels 3 & 4 on the T1, but be aware that the Trim settings may be radically different between those channels to get equivalent balanced volume between them. Channel 4/5 has a different "gain structure" than Channels 1-3.

Hi again !
Using 2 channels is out of the question for me.
I'm using all the channels and their inputs as it is !

Perhaps need a "mono" e.piano !

Hi Dan,

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Cornett:
Notes:
(a) I can see the online simulation of the T1 only has a minimum (digital) delay of 10ms ... I'd prefer to be able to start with a bit less than that for this purpose (because 1 ms ~= 1 ft of distance between the original recording mics).

I just checked my T1®.

The delay on the T1® starts at 1.6 ms and goes up in increments of 0.1 ms.

Hi again !

Rather than take one jack from my keyboard (L/Mono) output and plug into one input of my T1, should I output from both L and R outputs and plug them into Ch's 4+5 of my T1 ?
That would leave me with one input less for everything else.
How about still using L and R outputs of my keyboard and summing them together with an adapter and plugging into ONE input of Ch.4/5 ?
Perhaps trying all this is the only way to know for sure !

quote:

Rather than take one jack from my keyboard (L/Mono) output and plug into one input of my T1, should I output from both L and R outputs and plug them into Ch's 4+5 of my T1 ?

Hi Snakehips,

That is the way I normally set up my Roland XV88, and it sounds good. But I guess it all comes down to how your keyboard sounds. Like you said, experimentation is the way to go. Let us know it works out

Best Wishes,
Jeff

Hi again !

I was just wondering a couple of hours after my last post :
If I take both L+R outputs from my keyboard and connect them with an adapter to one single jack, into one channel of my T1, isn't summing those two outputs the same as only using the L/Mono output ? Or does the keyboard sum them together with just the L/Mono socket in a different way ?
ie. will it make any difference ? I'm less convinced now !!

Not had a chance to test it out as I'be been busy with getting a good e.guitar sound through my L1+T1. Settle on mic'ing up my amp that has an attenuator plugged in now (so the amp runs "hot" but some of the output is diverted away from the speaker, to lower the volume without sacrificing tone). But that's another story (see guitar section)

Hi Snakehips,

Whether or not using an adapter or the mono-output of your keyboard will sound the same probably depends on how the 'mono'ing was accomplished inside the keyboard.

but check this out (excerpt)

quote:

The following is an excerpt from Why Not Wye

Introduction

Wye-connectors (or "Y"-connectors, if you prefer) should never have been created.

Anything that can be hooked-up wrong, will be. You-know-who said that, and she was right. A wye-connector used to split a signal into two lines is being used properly; a wye-connector used to mix two signals into one is being abused and may even damage the equipment involved.

Here is the rule: Outputs are low impedance and must only be connected to high impedance inputs -- never, never tie two outputs directly together -- never. If you do, then each output tries to drive the very low impedance of the other, forcing both outputs into current-limit and possible damage. As a minimum, severe signal loss results.
...

Get the whole article...

For more information about stereo to mono adapters type y-adapter into the Search the wiki box below - then click Go.

I monkeyed around a bit with introducing a delay into one of the channels to try to duplicate the slight delay between the two channels that sampled pianos have which was mentioned above. I plugged my Motif ES Left/Mono channel into channel 1 of the T1 and the right output channel into channel two of the T!. The trims and levels were about as even as they could be. I put the delay on Channel two of the T1. I was unable to get any less than a 10ms delay on the T1. I think there was some debate about whether this is possible. Was I doing something wrong. Any way, I fiddled with the three settings under delay; mix, feedback, and time (in no logical way). Wasn't able to get a better piano sound. I am a guy who is usually satisfied with onboard effects and have done very little tweaking of effects so I'll admit I was fumbling around. I was wondering if anyone else has tried this with more knowledge of tweaking effects to get the desired result that I have. I have suffered through the bad piano sound long enough on the MO. When I first got the L1 I was wiwlling to overlook it because I liked the L1 so much. Now I have overlooked it long enough and am on a quest for a better piano sound. I was thinking of getting the GEM RP-X but thought I would try this first before spending another $600 or so. Would appreciate if someone could replicate this and dial in the right settings for a better sound if it is possible. Thanks.

Hi Tony,

If you can't get the Delay Time below 10ms check your Firmware Version. In T1® Firmware version 1.7 you can get down to 1.5 ms with increments of 0.1 ms.

I don't recall what these values were in version 1.6.


What version level is your T1®?

1. Turn the Rotary Selector to Prefs
   
   
   
2. Press the first button
   
   
   
3. Turn the first button until you see Versions
   
4. Press the button
   
   
   
5. The versions for the firmware will be displayed. The versions shown below are sample values.
   See:T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Firmware Updates for the latest firmware
   
   
   
6. See:T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Firmware Updates for the latest firmware
   

Right now the latest T1® firmware is 1.7.

What have you got?

Notes: What version of the T1® Firmware do I have?

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
...I just checked my T1®. The delay on the T1® starts at 1.6 ms and goes up in increments of 0.1 ms.

...hmmm I'll have to try the 1.7 update; I know my T1 is only at 1.6, and it only goes down to 10ms.

For all: check out this discussion for more on introducing a delay into just one channel of a stereo keyboard.

Hey Everyone- I was reading the posts and have to brag a little- I just purchased a demo floor model L1 system from Guitar Center which was on sale for 400.00.It was not working but shipped it to Bose and they completely refurbished it for 250.00.So total cost was 650.00.YEAH!! I have used it 3 times in different venues- 1 with a drummer and guitar player and acoustic piano.2-playing e.piano and keyboard bass and drum machine and vocal, and 3 as a second keyboardist playing my full keyboard rig- digital piano- 2 synths and a Hammond X-3 w/leslie. I miked the leslie and plugged all4 keyboards into a 12 channel mackie board and straight in to the L1 system w/1 bass module.It was UNBELIEVABLE!The only thing I would do to improve the sound is to buy a second L1 system so I can run in full stereo- even thought most people cant tell the difference between mono-stereo.I can't tell you how pleased i am.Also,my back is pleased- no more lifting heavy powered speakers.I also have a lot more room in my mini-van-though I am sure i will find something else to fill it up.Thanks Bose for the great deal and customer service.Now all my band members have Bose Systems.

quote:

How many of you use the T1™ with your keyboards? Does it make a significant difference? Most keyboards can adjust their voice’s tones internally, so if there are advantages using the T1™ with the keyboard, what are they?

Hi

We also run our keyboard thru the Tonematch on Channel 3 and bypass EQ settings. My keyborad is stereo but I am using an unbalanced cable from keyboard to tonematch. I wonder what would happen if I used a balanced cable?

I have found that that using matched cables gives a slightly "cleaner" signal-less noise- but other than that i have not noticed much difference- Paul

sorry- i meant balanced cables- however- i dont have the tone match mixer and am using a 12 channel Mackie board wit h effects and am running in mono-there is no way to run true stereo on a monosignal as this forum has dicussed- I guess you could run one signal(L) to the bose and an another(R) to a different system but not sure how that would sound -but it would be true stereo-Paul