I posted asking about my CP300 because I'm thinking of replacing my two 802's.

I received only one response and it was suggested I consider 2 L1's with 4 B1's ...or simply 1 L1 with 2 B1's.

Is it necessary to have more B1's than L1's for a full 'piano' sound? While I respect one person's opinion I'd really like to hear from many more keyboard players.

For perspective, most of my work is acoustic and I only go electric when there is no acoustic piano. The size of the crowd is intimate (and eating - restaurant crowd, 50 or less) to 150 or so tops.

For a restaurant crowd, 50-150 people, you almost don't need amplification (assuming acoustic piano), so certainly one L1/B1 would be fine.

I find two B1s handy for high volume situations, as it just feels like the system can open up more. But that would benefit the synth more than it would a real piano.

I find stereo to be crucial for things like pipe organ patches or electronic soundscapes, but mono's just fine when the synth is merely one element in a larger ensemble.

If cost is little object, buy two L1/B1 systems and you could then bring one system with one bass module, one system with two bass modules, or two systems with two bass modules as needed.

If cost is an object, I'd start with one Model II system and a T1, and grow from there.

Alan, thanks for your comments!

I'm pretty new to this forum. Where are all the keyboard players who use this new system?

I'd really like to hear from more keyboard players.

Dave,

while for the audience it would make no or very few difference, if you would use one or two L1 systems, you will have more fun and inspiration with the stereo sound field of two L1.
But if you have good mono samples (or stereo samples which combine well to mono) on the CP300, it will be fun even with only one L1.
But you have to try both variants (ideally at a giging place), to be able to make a decision which fits your needs.

The number of attached B1's will limit the max. reachable volume of the L1, depending on the bass portion of the sound.
So most times one B1 (per L1) will be enough. With 150 people (generating more background noise, needing more volume) a second B1 will give you some benefit.

I'm normally using one L1/B1 together with my Yamaha S90ES mainly for worship music (sometimes with higher levels) in a chappel or church with audiences from 50 up to 400 people.
As rule of thumb I use 1x B1 for <100 and 2x B1 for >100 people.
For practice I use two L1/B1 which gives me a very realistic impression and is very inspiring.

Wolfgang

Hi Dave,

I've been using the L1 system for over 3 years now, and I've recently upgraded to a Model II with the T1 controller. I use a Roland XV88 with the system in venues with audiences from 100 to 500.

If you are performing both instrument and vocals, you will really like the T1 for its' ability to easily adapt to any room acoustic situation.

I used a single B1 Bass Module for the first couple years, and when I upgraded to 2 Bass modules, I have to say there was a noticeable improvement in the low end on piano patches. Organ and synth patches definitely enjoy more warmth and fullness with the second bass module at medium volumes.

I've never found it necessary to use a second L1 system, since my mono patches in the Roland are quite good. Even the leslie effects are pretty convincing with just a single tower.

No matter which option you choose, you will reap the benefit of the expanded coverage you get from the L1 system. It's nice to have that intimate connection with all the audience, even those in the very back of the room.

We're here to help, just let us know your questions and concerns

Best Wishes,
Jeff

Consolidating threads... from "Anyone...?"

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Horne:
Are all the keyboard players so shy ... or is there a shortage of keyboard players who use the L1?

While I wait to hear a stereo L1 set up, I really would like to hear from more players.

Moved Reply:

Our resident keyboardist Cliff-at-Bose will certainly talk keys when he gets back from NAMM next week :-)

What would you like to hear about?

Moved Reply:

MikeZ, I'm interested in learning what their set up is .... one L1\B1, or two complete systems, or more B1's than L1's.

Thanks,DH

Moved Reply:

I'm guessing the real reason you don't see much talk from the keyboard players is that the digital keys require little to no EQ, they sound fine right out of the box, so there aren't many problems to ask about. The only problem you ever see is the stereo to mono issue.

I use an Roland RD700 with a single L1 with 2 B1's, usually connecting the mono output into Channel 3 on a Classic (Model 1) L1. With the on-keyboard volume and EQ, there's no need to use Channel 1 or 2 for the keyboard.

quote:

Originally posted by holliwil:
...when I upgraded to 2 Bass modules, I have to say there was a noticeable improvement in the low end on piano patches...

I concur with holliwil on this point. This is particularly so when that keyboard is the only instrument accompanying a group (e.g.: congregational singing).

I've also, on two occasions so far, mic'd an acoustic (baby grand) piano. The only mics at hand were vocal mics, but they were o.k. in helping project the piano via the L1. I had 2 B1's on the L1, but that didn't make much difference. I used two mics, set up as Cliff recommends, one over the low-mid as the "primary" mic and a second over the high strings brought up to add the right amount of 'brightness'. It really helped to have an L1 on the acoustic -- the sound was much more uniform in the large sanctuary where this took place.

I have at times used the keyboard in stereo to two L1 Systems (with 2 B1's each); when the L1's are more than 10' apart, it really gives a distinctly different, somewhat better sound ... but not enough when playing in an ensemble to usually have a strong desire to hook it up that way. Said another way: It's nice to run stereo, but I rarely go to the effort of using two L1 Systems just for stereo keyboard. If I already have 2 Systems being set up, and it is convenient to run the keyboard in stereo, then I will do that ... but I usually don't bother.

edit to clarify when I choose 2 L1's with stereo keyboard.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dan Cornett,

Hi all,

As a keyboard player myself I have successfully tried the following rigs through either a model I (using input three normally) or a model II (either using the analogue input on the powerstand or channels 4/5 on the T1):

Yamaha PSR9000pro, Nord Stage 88 (a real fave.. but needs a bit of on board work on the piano sounds), Korg M3, Roland JV1080 module.

I have also had a lot of fun with the Akai EWI4000 and an inexpensive Sennheiser Freeport radio rig to make it completely wire free with model II..

Surely all this fun might just be illegal, or if not taxeable?

Greetings to all ivory-tinklers.

Andy

..a quick PS to my last post, yes I'd go for two B1s everytime with keyboards.

I use a Kurzweil PC 88mx with my group, playing into an L1 with 2 B1's. I do not like the sound when plugged into channel 3, but find that plugging into channel 2 and using preset 50 evens things out.

We have 4 L1's and a powered sub in our band (9-piece) and I find that I can cover up the whole group with the keys if I want, so volume is not an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy-at-Bose UK:
..a quick PS to my last post, yes I'd go for two B1s everytime with keyboards.

Andy, to be clear, did you mean 2 B1's in total or two B1's per each L1? This is really my core question in this thread.

I believe Andy means one L1 with two B1s.

Hi Dave and Alan,

Yes, Alan is correct, I do mean to have two B1s per L1 system irrespective of whether or not you are using a 'classic', model I or model II.

I just like a really full bottom register on my instruments and with two B1s hooked up I have always been happy.

Also to my ears the model II sounds the best with keys even without a T1 and ToneMatch settings being used. I believe this is due to the different crossover point for the B1s (slightly higher than on model I or the classic) coupled with the sweeter tonal dispersion with the model II radiator.

Thanks Andy.

While the system seems attractive, I would be forced to buy (for stereo) two L1's and a total of 4 B1's. At this point in my life, I'll stick with my two 802's though I will still try to demo two L1's (whether they have two B1's per ... or not).

Hi Dave,
I would like to demo two L1's vs. one L1 (with 1x or 2x B1) and see if the advantage from two over one L1 is great enough to justify the additional financial effort (same for 1 vs. 2 B1).
A workmate who plays in a duo with his Tyros-2 and e-drums, did this comparison ending up buying only one L1 with 2x B1, because for him the difference was minor. - And he's still happy after a year with the L1.

In my experiance the piano sound and coverage in larger rooms is amazing even with (only) one L1 and (only) one B1 (especiallay with model II). - At least thats what audience says again and again.
That's I would try it out at the real place (!) where you normally play.

Another option would be first to by one L1 with 1x B1 and later add a 2nd B1 (if needed) and later if you really need/want stereo add a 2nd L1 (maybe a model I without B1 using the Bass Out Line going to the first system).
And if you already have a mixer, you could omit the T1 (in the first instance). By buying the L1 model II with one B1 you would have the latest technology (coverage and less weight) and all options to go (additional B1, T1, L1, ...) in the future.

Wolfgang

Hi folks, I work with a 3 piece band,female vocals, keys(me) and a guitarist. We use backing tracks mixed on to mini disc, on stage I use a Roland Phantom X8 and a Motif6, sub mixed and into a Mackie CFX12, then into 2 L1 model 2's with one B1 per side. We run everything in stereo. The sound quality, bass response, coverage and power output is the best yet. We used to run 4 Mackie SRM 450's and they cannot touch the L1's here! I get an amazing sound from both keyboards. On my sub mixer the sound is completely flat, though on the CFX12 I have the bass and top frequencies turned up a couple of notches to give the top end more cut and the bottom end more depth. I was so sceptical of the L1's and the sound took a bit of getting used to compared to the Mackies but we now have a truly fantastic sound with only 2 L1's!! and usually play to crowds of 80-200+ but we've just been booked to play a Gala in the North of Scotland where there are 1100+ in a Marquee, so this will test the L1's to the MAX!!!

We have:

Drums (All drums have a mic)
Keyboards (Motif XS 8 and MM6)
Guitar (Loud and distorted)
Bass
3 Vocals

I use the L1 Model 2 for my own piano/vocal stuff, but when the band plays, we use 4 EV 15" Powered speakers, and 3 powered JBL 18" subs.

I was thinking of selling my 4 EV's, and replacing them with another L1! What do you guys think? Will a set up like this work if we use an L1 as left speaker, and L1 as right? We would keep the three powered 18s.

Can the L1's handle this much volume? Anyone do this before? We play rock, so it's loud!

Thanks!

Michael C. Gates