I am using a yahama cp33 through my bose L1 and 2 bass modules. I noticed using the mono line out into the line one preset for keyboards or flat that the output from this channel is much lower than when i use it through line 4 or 5 unbalanced. I set up all the settings exactly the same to see that this was happenning.Why is this?? why the loss of power in the preset channel 2. I never noticed this before because we were using the 1 and 2 outputs for different instruments.

Hi free2be,

It sounds like you just need to turn up the input trim on Channel 1.

Before I get too deep into this, are we talking about a Model I, Classic or T1® with Model II?

If we are talking about a T1®, the behaviour of the input trims for Channels 1,2,3 is very similar. The behaviour of the input trim for Channel 4/5 IS different from the other 3 and not directly comparable (visually).

You can read more about that here: T1® Gain Staging and Input Trim

Its the PS1 so I think that is the first system?

Okay free2be,

quote:

Originally posted by free2be:
Its the PS1 so I think that is the first system?

From your description - we are talking about the original L1®, now known as the Classic. Great!

quote:

Originally posted by free2be:
I am using a yahama cp33 through my bose L1 and 2 bass modules. I noticed using the mono line out into the line one preset for keyboards or flat that the output from this channel is much lower than when i use it through line 4 or 5 unbalanced.

Here is where you lost me. There are four input Channels on the Model I (or Classic) Power Stand.

quote:

I set up all the settings exactly the same to see that this was happenning.

If you are comparing the inputs on Channels 1 and 2 to the inputs on Channels 3 and 4, this channels are quite different (different internal signal paths) so it is quite possible that what appears to be exactly the same setting is not exactly the same.

quote:

Why is this?? why the loss of power in the preset channel 2. I never noticed this before because we were using the 1 and 2 outputs for different instruments.

Have you tried turning up the input trim?

Okay yeah its the first system there are 4 inputs.I think i have always been confused somewhat about setting output levels to get maximum clarity from the keyboard. I have always played by the rule 3/4 way up out put on channel 3 or 4 and use the trim on 1 and 2..but my confusion arises from what the keyboard output should also be at to deliver the max clarity signal into the bose. i usually set the key at 9 o clock to line 3 or 4 which i set at around 3/4 up. But if i use this setting on 1 or 2 the volume output from the bose is much lower.Okay so i am also using the remote and i wonder about the signal output level..Does the signal output level override the trim in the powerstand??I am also balancing the vocals through the bose.

Hi free2be,

Let's start fresh and set aside comparisons to the way you had things set up.

If you are comfortable with running your keyboard up to but not exceeding 3/4 on the output, then let's say that this is the maximum that it will ever be.

Now we want to set the Bose input trim on match this.

1. Connect the R1 Remote and set all the controls straight up (12:00 o'clock).
   Then turn the Master all the way off.
   
   
2. Connect the keyboard to Channel 2. You can use a different channel but I will talk about Channel 2.
   
   
3. Play the keyboard as loud/hard as you would ever do that in performance.
   Set the Power Stand input trim so that the Trim O/L light stays solidly green with occasional flickers of red.
   
   Great - now you have the input trim set, and unless you change to a different keyboard, you will probably not have to deal with this again.
   
   
4. Do some playing and turn up the R1 Remote, Master Level. It should sound great.
   
   
5. In your mind you probably want to decide which volume control you will use for the Keyboard. You can use the R1 Remote Channel 2 Level or the Keyboard volume control. I probably wouldn't do both. There's no harm in it, but it might get confusing.
   
   If you use the Keyboard volume control, then leave the R1 Remote Channel 2 level at 12:00 o'clock - that is - pointing straight up.
   
   
6. Now let's set up your microphone. Turn down the R1 Remote Master and then set the gain staging for the microphone as per the short video below.
   
   --== click the picture ==--
   
   

Now you've got things set for optimal gain staging. All that's left is to manage things while you are performing.

I would use the R1 Remote Channel 1 to set the volume of the microphone relative to the keyboard. I would probably leave R1 Remote Channel 2 alone (pointed straight up).

I would use the R1 Remote Master Level to control the overall loudness of the system.

How does that sound to you?

Thanks ST all sorted i was great to get a fresh run through. i have everything set right and sounds great.I have the keyboard set at 3 o clock then followed your instructions..You see what has always confused me is the remote control and the signal out. If it overrides the trim well whats the purpose of it being there if you have already set the trim on the stand?? One other thing i noticed and maybe this is just me being over picky but increasing the overall volume that is vocals plus keys is never a problem but when you decrease vocals and keys from what you set them at default can sometimes need a little tweaking here and there on the keys. Is this just due to frequency wave loss at lower volume or polyphonic sound from the keys..i use split bass and rhodes electric on the yahama..by the way the sound from the cp33 is excellent for gigs its simple basic and without the complications of the roland rd700gx that i had been using and which i had other posts about. thanks a million ST

Hi free2be,

quote:

Originally posted by free2be:
Thanks ST all sorted i was great to get a fresh run through. i have everything set right and sounds great.

Great!
Thanks for coming back to tell us how you made out.

quote:

I have the keyboard set at 3 o clock then followed your instructions..You see what has always confused me is the remote control and the signal out. If it overrides the trim well whats the purpose of it being there if you have already set the trim on the stand??

The trim controls the signal as it enters the L1® System. Typically, once you set this, you don't have to change it unless you change to a different input device.

On the R1 Remote, the Channel Levels set the relative volume (Channel 1 vs. Channel 2).

On the R1 Remote, the Master Level sets the overall volume, raising and lowering Channels 1,2, and 3,4 together.

quote:

One other thing i noticed and maybe this is just me being over picky but increasing the overall volume that is vocals plus keys is never a problem but when you decrease vocals and keys from what you set them at default can sometimes need a little tweaking here and there on the keys. Is this just due to frequency wave loss at lower volume or polyphonic sound from the keys..

Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me. The way we perceive different frequencies changes as we change the volume. You can read about that in Equal Loudness.

quote:

I use split bass and rhodes electric on the yahama. By the way the sound from the cp33 is excellent for gigs its simple basic and without the complications of the roland rd700gx that i had been using and which i had other posts about. thanks a million ST

I'm hoping others reading this will benefit from your experiences comparing the Yamaha CP33 and the Roland RD700GX.

Glad to have helped, and thanks again for letting us know how you made out.