We're spoiled. We record using a Bosendorfer in a marvelous studio with a phenominal engineer so the sound is truly awesome.

(For those in the Washington,DC area the studio is [URL=http://www.studiohousenorth.com ]Studio House North[/URL].)

But, in the real world it's a bit hard to drag a Bosendorfer around to every concert and we are unlikely to find house pianos in every venue that are in great shape.

So, a keyboard and good speaker system is a must. I know we can never duplicate a live Bosendorfer or a Yamaha C7; But, just what are realistic benchmarks we might use to test the PAS (or any sound system) with a keyboard.

A potential benchmark that comes to mind is to listen to the keyboard with a good set of headphones and use that as our criteria. But, is that really realistic? Can any high power system match a good set of headphones for realism?

I don't want to be unreasonable in evaluating the PAS; but, I do want to aim high.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom,

I'm not one to play keys (in public anyway), so you can take this with at grain of salt.


What I would do is take the instrument and the amplification system into a typical performance space. Then just play at performance volume, walk around the room and listen.

I would definitely not use headphones as a benchmark for any amplified instrument when the intended target audience is live. Neither would I use a recording that was intended to be 'played back' through a consumer audio system.

I have consistently found that what works in the cans (headphones) does not translate well to a live performance setting. The EQ and the sense of presence were different. Similarly, things that sound good in stereo on a piano bench, in a livingroom or in a car may lose something in the translation when you try to scale that up to a room that seats 300-500 people.

Another thought:
I wonder if this would be any help
East West Bosendorfer 290 GrandPiano VSTi (Macintosh and Windows). Is this something you could use with (or without) a computer and your Korg SP500?

ST suggests a great alternative to the real thing. VST instruments have come a long way. Good ones are often indistinguishable from the real thing, especially for live use. You can run them direct from a PC or Mac, though there are risks associated with doing so (e.g. one crash and you have to wait until everything reboots for the show to continue )...

Perhaps the best alternative to such a disaster is the Receptor by Muse Research and your favorite MIDI controller. Muse appears to have developed a relationship with EastWest, too! 'Might be worth checking out...

We were able to take some time this afternoon to set up the Korg and test the Bose. We worked the Bose very hard, testing and retesting various presets.

The end result was absolutely phenominal.

Fortunately, the system we purchased had what appears to be the 2.0 version of the presets. Otherwise, we might not have found the sound that we wanted so easily.

It turns out that the Korg sounds great in Mono even though the grand piano samples are supposedly done in stereo.

Equally impressive was the European Cathedral Organ.

We're not doing Rock music, so the bass, even with just one Bass Module, seemed fine to us. We are very, VERY pleased.

In the future will will definitely be adding live computer capabilities to the mix. We're already experimenting with a number of VST and GigaStudio virtual orchestra plug-ins. The East-West Bosendorfer is definitely on our list. We can't use it simply with the Korg. We'd need a computer.

The priority, however, as far as VST experimentation is a unique product called Synful Orchestra. While its sounds aren't quite up to the level of the Vienna Orchestral Cube right now, there is enormous promise in the technology behind it and we think it's worth putting effort into learning to make it work. At that point, we'll definitely need two (or, perhaps three) PAS systems.

In any case, I think you can tell that we're sold on the PAS! I'm not getting rid of the boxes just yet; but, I can't even imagine returning it at the moment.

Hi Tom,

Glad that went well for you.

What preset(s) did you end up using for the Korg SP500.

Thanks.

quote:

Perhaps the best alternative to such a disaster is the Receptor by Muse Research and your favorite MIDI controller. Muse appears to have developed a relationship with EastWest, too! 'Might be worth checking out...

Whoaa!!! That is a GREAT suggestion!

Putting together a reliable portable system is NOT a trivial matter. There are very few notebook computers that I would trust. In fact, I can't think of ANY that I would trust to be completely reliable... and, as a computer consultant, I've had just about every make out there.

I've been angonizing over a choice for the last few weeks. While all of the best known brands will work, none have the absolute reliability that one can count on. It would pain me to have to rely on an HP, Compaq, Sony, Toshiba, Gateway or Dell in a performance. I'm really going to check the Muse product out.

Thanks!!!

Tom

East West is AMAZING !!!

You must take some time and hear the samples on their web page.

Native Instruments is partnered with them also and I just got their "Kompakt" program and love it. It only comes with a handful of EastWest files but they are a joy to blend in my projects.

The top-end orchestra and choir samples ( drooling over THOSE software pkgs) are beyond anything anyone has done to date.

I have a Muse Receptor on the way, and plan to bring it to our get-together in Big Sur.

Synthogy's Ivory is my favorite virtual piano, with Steinway D, Bösendorfer Imperial and Yamaha C7 samples all included. The same team that programmed the Kurzweil piano samples put Ivory together.

quote:

Native Instruments is partnered with them also and I just got their "Kompakt" program and love it.

I was wondering if Kompakt is embedded in the Muse Receptor since many of the 'User Installable' samples require Kompakt. The studio we use has a lot of investment and expertise in GigaStudio so I was torn about which direction we should go. Outside of that factor, the momentum seems to be going Kompakt's way.

quote:

I have a Muse Receptor on the way, and plan to bring it to our get-together in Big Sur.

Synthogy's Ivory is my favorite virtual piano, with Steinway D, Bösendorfer Imperial and Yamaha C7 samples all included. The same team that programmed the Kurzweil piano samples put Ivory together.

Please let me know how well Synthology works in the Receptor.

I'd also appreciate hearing if anyone is using Bardstown Audio's Bösendorfer Imperial Grand.

It's very difficult to tell from MP3s-- not only becuase of the compression; but, becuase it's unclear how much the sound has been processed.

quote:

What preset(s) did you end up using for the Korg SP500.

I believe we ended up using Preset 88 for the Korg SP-500. We didn't play with all the presets becuase of time; but, this was the best of those tried.

I notice that the Muse Receptor does not have a mono out. What would be the best way to use this with our PAS? Run left and right in?

Welcome, Louis!

Just wondering - Do you own/use an L1? Could you tell us a bit about yourself?

quote:

Run left and right in?

That'd be your safest bet for summing to mono, to ensure that you don't end up missing anything from a stereo sample. If you knew that a patch was psuedo-stereo (e.g. sum & difference), you could use just the Left output from the Receptor. 'Hope that helps...

Chuck,

I REALLY want to thank you for the reference to the Muse Receptor. It's jumped to the top of my 'must have' list!

Now the only question is which version to buy. The upgrade path almost seems like the best deal from the prices I've seen so far.

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I'm a brand new Bose PAS(b1) owner/user. I'm primarily a jazz vocalist. Have done two gigs with the system so far. Love it, love it, love it. Don't need the reverb. Clean clear tones with loads of headroom.

I also play keys. I'm currently running a Yamaha P90 through the system in mono. I'm using the rhodes presets since I don't like the piano sound. I've had my eye on the Muse Receptor for a while since I already own Ivory. That's why this topic is of interest to me.

You're very welcome, Tom. 'Glad to have helped. I'm afraid that you're on your own with finding the best deal. Good luck!

Thanks for your purchase, Louis - We're elated to know how much you're enjoying it! Good luck with your quest for the ultimate piano sound...

I tried Ivory at the Muse booth at NAMM and found it to be significantly more responsive than on my G4 tower at home. I immediately placed an order for a Receptor.

One should be able to create a mono instance of Ivory and connect a single cable to the PAS, but safest would probably be to use two cables as Chuck suggested.

Chuck said:

quote:

I'm afraid that you're on your own with finding the best deal.

Hey! I just got through paying for my daughter's wedding. I can use all the help I can get! Can't somebody pass the hat around the Bose offices for me????

quote:

I'm afraid that you're on your own with finding the best deal.

quote:

I tried Ivory at the Muse booth at NAMM and found it to be significantly more responsive than on my G4 tower at home. I immediately placed an order for a Receptor.

That's what I like to hear! Thanks.