Hey, I love my PAS, but am still plagued with feedback problems, when playing flute!
I am running mini disc tracks, and using my mic for sax/flute & vocals. Sometimes I'll have another vocalist's mic, & sometimes a guitarist plugged in too.

I use a mixer, then run the tracks out a separate monitor out, the mics out one channel, and if a guitar is in, that out a separate monitor out. I wish there were an effects unit built into the base, as it would be one less thing to deal with.

When I play the flute, even with nothing else but the tracks, I'll find it difficult to get much gain, without feedback. Any ideas?

Steven, what mic are you using and how do you set it up? That will help us quite a bit.

I ran into this feedback problem quite abit and pretty much got the hang of it. We have a choir with four condenser and two dynamic mics.

Reading your post, I couldn't picture on how you do the cablings. Hope to hear more of your details.

Well, if I'm just playing solo, I'll run the tracks out a monitor out, into channel 2. My mixer's main out has my wind synth, & mic (either a Beta 57/58). Sometimes, I'll also use a separate mic for my saxes, which would also be either of the Betas....

Dzung, I hear ya on the cablings....
One thing I find disconcerting, is that my cables & connecting situation has been more complicated with the PAS, plus having the controls of the base on the floor, is a little bit of a pain, especially when in a tux (thankfully rarely), having to stoop down to the ground...

So far, I can't figure out how to simplify the situation.
I now have more cables running around the stage than ever!

I'm not sure if the better sound quality is worth all the extra work, & clutter.......

Hi Steven,

Except for the occasional guitarist and/or vocalist that you had mentioned, you may be able to get by without an external mixer as follows:

Input 1: mic
Input 2: mic
Inputs 3 & 4: tracks

You could use the R1 remote to control Channels 1 & 2 and Master Volume. You could use the Mini Disc’s headphone out to feed the PS1 inputs 3 & 4 directly and locate the Mini Disc and the R1 remote such that they're easily accessible, allowing you to make volume adjustments for the tracks, when necessary, using the Mini Disc's volume control, so you wouldn't have to reach down to the power stand. You could even incorporate effects using the 'inserts' on Channels 1 & 2. This all seems like it might be significantly less cluttered, certainly no more cluttered than with a conventional setup.

Regarding feedback, is it just the flute that's giving you trouble? Can you give us any more details on what mic your using for flute, how the mic is positioned, how you're positioned with respect to the L1?

We'd like to do everything possible to help you. If you prefer, send me a private message and we'll set up a way to speak directly...

Actually, Chuck, I would need track 4 for my wind synth (WX5), which means I run out if either the guitar, &/or his vocal mic need in.....so a mixer it has to be. Plus, if I use an efx unit, and my synth module, & the mini-disc player I may as well have the mixer too.

As for the flute feedback, I use the Beta 57 (I tried out the Beta 87, but I think the phantom power on my Rolls mixer might be too wimpy, as it needs alot more gain... I've tried pointing the mic straight, up, down, and the tower has been behind me, to the right, the left (as far as 10 ft., as close as 3). Sometimes, (both with the PAS & regular speakers) it seems if my flute (the bottom end) is pointing into the speaker, it will feed back, and I have to turn my body so as not point it that way.

Another factor, and one that drives me eternally crazy, is how best to set volume levels, the mic channel on the mixer, the mixer master, & then the amp (either the PAS amp, or another powered speaker's amp). I try all combinations, trying to find the one that gives the best sound, while enough volume. Any ideas?

Also, the long delay in my reply, is because I returned the PAS I first bought. I really liked alot about it, but had some experiences where it either had too many feedback problems, or didn't seem quite loud or warm enough. I had one sub, but sometimes it still sounded thin.
However, after getting a pair of great EV powered speakers, my guitarist, drummer, & I, have commented on how the Bose would have really worked best at some of the gigs we've had. We do some small ones, where we use maybe just one speaker, and it has to cover the room & be our monitor, or in a larger space, we use both, but then either have to still listen to them too, or bring in another speaker (JBL Eon 10) as monitor. And of course, then we don't really know exactly how it sounds out front. The Bose would alleviate all this, if I can get it right. I actually have a buyer for the EVs, so I've got to decide soon if I want to buy the PAS for real or not....

Hey Saxman, what sound module are you using with your WX5??

I've been using the Roland JV 1010, mainly due to its small size. I've liked it, but I'm about to move up to probably the Yamaha Motif. I have a Triton keyboard, and absolutely love the sounds, but the Triton rack takes up 2 spaces, plus would be duplicating what I already have, thus the Motif makes more sense....

Hey Saxman7

I have no doubt that we can eliminate the problems you experienced. I want to set you up with someone on my staff to work on this one on one. Then, with your permission, we'll tell the community here what we found and if we succeeded.

If this is something you'd be willing to try, let me know by a reply here.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ken-at-Bose,

I use a Motif 6 along with a VLm70 with the Patchman Chip. Good combo.

Sure Ken, I'd be more than willing to work out a solution.

Should I wait until I obtain a new PAS, before we do that?

I'll probably be doing that in the next week or two....

Yes we should wait. I'm going to assign the best person on my staff for this issue to work with you. Write back here as soon as you're ready

quote:

Originally posted by Ken-at-Bose:
Yes we should wait. I'm going to assign the best person on my staff for this issue to work with you. Write back here as soon as you're ready

Alright Ken, I'm still unable to get through a gig without nervewracking FEEDBACK all night long. I'm constantly having to turn this mic, and that mic down, dare not turn from the mic, even when it it nowhere near directly behind me.

So, let me know who to talk to, or have them email me or set up a time to talk via phone.....thanks!

hello saxman7
sorry about the feedback problem,it is a real nightmare.in my 3 pce folk band we had difficulties at first.one of the guys plays wind synth,flute, whistles and occasionally northumberland pipes.the most effective change we made was to buy sennheiser mikes.i am not sure how the model numbers correlate with ours in the uk.but the important thing is to have a supercardiod or hypercardiod mike.it merely means a much higher resistance to feedback.my mikes are sennheiser 935's.we had previously used shure and audio technia.THERE IS NO COMPARISON.Good luck with finding a solution.believe me it is worth it to persevere,we are told regularly that we have never sounded better
thanks
damien

Thanks Damien, I do have a Sennhieser tiny wireless mic, for smaller gigs, it's just one more thing to mess with, and I'd prefer the simplicity of a mic. I once tried a Senn 421 (I know Sanborn likes those for horn), but I found it a bit dry (of course that was 25yrs ago)... I'll make note of the models, but damn, I already own 5 Shures, plus the Sennheiser & a Beyer wireless. I also have a couple Barcus-Berry pick ups, but the diminished tonal quality is a drag (unless I were to play loud rock n roll), but I won't give up, I'll figure something out!

Hi, Saxman7...

One of the groups I play in (w/the PAS) is a Celtic trio (hammered dulcimer, guitar (me) and flute). We always had trouble with the flute not being loud enough, or feedback if we tried to turn it up (originally using a SM57 on a mic stand for the flute). Using the SM57, we always had trouble keeping the flute close enough to the mic to get high enough voulme out of it. Then I bought an Audio Technica Pro 35X (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/7b2573f135d49181/index.html - "Designed for sax, toms, brass and percussion, the PRO 35ax excels in high-SPL applications and is ideal for active stage performances."). At first we attached it to the flute using the clip, bending the arm to get the best sound without the 'wind' noise. It worked much better than the SM57, but still had feedback issues when turning it up. Then we took the mic (with windscreen) out of the clip and arm (very easy to do - doesn't hurt the mic) and taped it directly to the flute body using painter's masking tape (doesn't leave an adhesive residue). We positioned it about an inch to the right of the mouthpiece. The mic and mic cable are very small and light, so attaching it directly to the flute doesn't impact the flute player's ability to move at all. The result was that we can get the flute TOO LOUD now. I know this is not very elegant, but it works for us. (The mic is very inexpensive - about $100.00). Might be something to try... I'm looking for a more elegant way to attach the mic... some kind of plastic clip, or something.

Hi dandyman,
Thanks for the idea about the microphone.

Here's a picture from the Audio Technica site.

I've go something very similar around here I could try for a similar application.

Were you careful to avoid covering the holes with the tape. It's a cardiod mic so I'm guessing that the holes near the grill are an important part of shaping the pickup pattern.

An Idea
What about using either a soft velcro cable tie. I have some that have a loop built in for the main cable and then 'wings' that wrap around a coiled cable. These are probably to big for your application but I've also seen smaller ones in the home entertainment section big box audio stores.

Edit: (click images for more details).

Something like this


Or if you can find it, a smaller version of this

Hi, ST...

We left the windscreen on, cut a small piece of foam so it looks somewhat like an 'X'(does that make sense?) and put the foam between the mic and the flute body, then tape it to the flute. My thinking was that the foam would somewhat insulate the 'key-click' sound from being picked-up by the mic directly through the flute body. The foam also keeps the mic just slightly off the flute body so that the holes are not covered up by anything... seems to work.

Thanks for the velcro idea... that never crossed my mind, but it is so simple!! Dang... I guess two heads ARE better than one !!

I've used the tape method before too, even just some scotch tape, and it's worked fine. But the velcro idea sounds better, and I found some thinner velcro (& really cheap) strips at Home Depot. They should work fine.....

Cool.