I'm pleased so many people took an interest in my "going deaf" discussion. I was happy to see I wasn't the only one who's greatly concerned about hearing loss. I'm starting a new thread because I have some exciting news for all of you that you might want to take advantage of. As you know, I previously stated that I had started using "traditional" drivers again so I could put them slightly in front of me and my ears could get some much needed relief from all the high volume that was coming right behind me from the L1. Many of you suggested that I put my L1 slightly in front of me but I didn't like that idea because then the L1 would be only on my left or right side. However, I discovered a 3rd option...

I was at Guitar Center the other day and was checking out the new Compact. Not to purchase but more out of curiosity to see what it was capable of. Mark Chipeur was there (Bose rep) and he plugged me in. To say I was surprised is an understatement. Not only did the Compact exceed my expectations, but in my opinion it sounded BETTER than the L1 Model 2. Why? Because to me the L1 is a very FLAT sounding speaker. The Compact sounds more like a "Hi-Fi" speaker and has A LOT of "bite" that really cuts across the room. So it got me thinking... Instead of using my Mackie's (which I hate lugging around), why not buy 2 Compacts and put one on each side of me??! I'll get the "left & right" sound I want and most importantly, save my ears by putting them slightly in front of me. I couldn't resist the idea and brought a Compact home to see if it measured up to my Mackie's. The results were shocking! Not only did the Compact SMOKE the Mackie's in sound quality, the coverage was 100% better. Keep in mind that the Mackie's have DOUBLE the amplification power and it still didn't hold up against the Compact in coverage or clarity.

Needless to say I'm excited to try my experiment. I'm buying another Compact today and setting both up at my next gig on each side of the room. I'll write about the results as soon as I can. My instincts tell me this is the set up I've been searching for and it will solve all my problems. Hearing protection, room coverage/clarity with minimum gear to carry.

To be continued...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kova,

GREAT news Kova!
I'm really glad you've found a solution within the L1 family.
Surely we all cringed at the "M" word.

I too recently bought a Compact, and used it with my 60's trio over the weekend.
It competed really well with a Classic and a Model II that the other guys were using.

It was very easy on my ears...it's like you say, "hi-fi".
Pretty cool.

Kova,

I think you may get some pretty nasty interference/cancellation using two in a dual mono scenario - especially since the dispersion is even better than the Model I/II. Think about it.

Dual Mono - follow the links

Tom

The Verdict:

Using 2 Compacts solved ALL my problems. Sound quality/coverage, placement options to protect my hearing and extremely compact/light weight for ease of travel.

My first gig with 2 Compacts was last night at the loudest Bar I play at during the week. There were roughly 300 people there eating, drinking and talking. Not only did I NOT get complaints about the lack of volume, the opposite happened. I got MORE compliments on this set up than I did with the Model 2. Even the manager came over to say how awesome it sounded. For those of you reading this who don't know me, I'm an acoustic artist who plays with a percussionist. We perform Top 40 music from the last 5 decades in all styles. Rock, Pop, Soul, R&B, Reggae and Country. I mention this so you get an idea what I put the Compacts through. I pushed them to their limits.

Tom, I know you warned me about a possible "phasing" issue, but I quickly solved that problem through my own experiments. If you take a Male to (2) Females quarter inch "Y" splitter coming out of a T1, you get a phasing problem. However if you take (1) regular guitar cable out of a T1 into the first Compact and then "daisy chain" it over to the second Compact, the "phasing" issue goes away. It then sounds like two regular speakers right next to each other. The only issue I encountered when doing this is that the second Compact in the chain is louder. So if the 1st Compact is set at 1 o'clock on the volume dial, then the 2nd Compact needs to be turned down to 12 o'clock to match it. Once I did that, the volumes were equal on both systems. I don't know why this is the case, but that's what I had to do to solve the issue.

I'm so grateful Bose invented the Compact so I could use 2 of them together. 1 Compact sounds great but 2 of these sound MIND BOGGLING! I would highly recommend this configuration to anyone.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kova,

Ahh man... now I gotta get 2 of'em??

If you're as picky as I am about seeking the perfect sound system, then the answer is "yes". You need to buy 2 of these! Haha...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kova,

Kova,

Plugging in the way you did shouldn't make any difference to phasing. A single point should still be the optimal sound.

Tom

[edited for typos]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tom Munch,

Don't know what to tell ya Tom. That's what my ears are telling me and it was an obvious audible difference trying it both ways. I went back and forth several times to make sure it wasn't my imagination. In fact, I tried 3 ways.

1st was a Mono "Y" splitter
2nd was a Stereo "Y" splitter
3rd was "daisy chain"

"Daisy chaining" it made it sound normal. All I know is that I finally found what works for me and I'm very happy with the results.

Thank you again Bose for making such awesome stuff. =)

Kova,

"Y" cords have other known problems. I suspect that's what you're hearing with both "Y" cords you tried. I'm looking for an article that ST put up on the forum here about this, but I can't find it at present.

The concept of one speaker per performer is beneficial for sound reasons, besides you only gain 3dB by adding a second speaker. From Chris' article where he talks about using different numbers of systems with a vocal.

Live or PreRecorded / Stereo and *-Mono

4 (systems)
- sounds like PA

2 (systems)
- sounds like PA

1 (system)
- sounds like it’s alive! A living person with a mighty voice. This reminds us of why we have always encouraged live performers to each have their own single line array.


Since you now have two Compacts you could use one & have your percussionist use the other. That would sound great!

Tom

That all sounds great on paper Tom but I'm gonna trust what my ears are telling me. My ears say "yes it sounds better with 2 Compacts, yes it's louder chained together." Let me rephrase... IT'S MUCH LOUDER!

However, you seem to be stickler for following manuals and expert advice so here's something that might make you rethink your definitive insistence about one L1 per person. The Compact manual gives an illustration on how to hook up TWO Compacts off ONE mixer.

I initially wasn't going to respond because everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I didn't want other readers to be misinformed about your incorrect information.

You can "chain" TWO Compacts together and the manual shows you how to do it. =)

quote:

I didn't want other readers to be misinformed about your incorrect information

I'd like to respectfully request, as I always try to do, that we all avoid judging others. In my experience it leads to conflict that takes us away from our subject: better performances.

We encourage the expression of opinion: "I think you are incorrect..." or "That's not how I experienced it..." as opposed to judgment, "You are incorrect," or "You have misinformed others..." The latter kind is often in our experience felt as a personal attack by the recipient, and an antagonistic tit for tat results that quickly sours the interest in the subject at hand by other members of the community, and often causes them to take sides.

Thank you all who have read this.

Ken

Ken, I meant no disrespect to Tom or any of the readers viewing this. Writing on this forum is fun, informative and I enjoy participating in friendly discussions. I was simply trying to make sure that the correct information is out there because If I was reading this, I would want to know what the correct answer is (as far as what the manual says). Trust me Ken, I'm smiling when I write on this forum and I would never get upset over something so trivial. There are far, far more important things in life to be concerned about then someone's insistence of not using two L1's chained together.

Hi Kova,

Thank you very much for your response and your understanding. It is highly appreciated.

The moderators have taken up the interesting technical aspects of this discussion and are in the process of generating an "at-Bose" response. We should have something soon.

With best regards,

Ken

Best regards to you too my friend. Always a pleasure interacting with you and everyone else on this forum. I have nothing but the utmost respect for everyone's personal opinion (even if I disagree with it), and I hope we all find what works best for each of us.

Cheers to you all. =)

re: Y vs chain of two Compacts

Without knowing the internals of the connectivity of the Compact, I'm actually not surprised that Kova hears a difference between the "Y" of a single source into the inputs of two Compacts when compared to "daisy-chaining" two Compacts (taking the Line-Out from the first into Channel 2 of the second).

Why? Because there is most likely a certain amount of delay between the input on the first Compact and the Line-out of that same box. Furthermore, there is at least that same amount of delay within the second Compact before the sound starts coming from its speakers. So, the sound from the second System is delayed from that coming from the first -- whereas when one "Y"s a single source to two Systems (in parallel), there is virtually no delay between the sound coming from the two Systems.

I know from my working with keyboards that it doesn't take much delay (i.e.: as little as 2-3 ms) to make a significant difference in the perceived sound of what otherwise would be two nearly identical sources. Our ears are rather sensitive to such delays -- partly because that's a factor in how we perceive directionality.

By the way: (a point of trivia) ... if you had a "Y" where one 'arm' of the Y cable was more than 2000 feet longer than the other, that would probably introduce an audible delay, too! LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Munch:
..."Y" cords have other known problems...

What you may be thinking of, Tom, is the problem with "Y"ing two outputs (two 'sources') into one input (such as "Y"ing the Left & Right from a Stereo source into a single Mono input).

The use of "Y" as Kova tried is a perfectly fine, typical, and acceptable use of a "Y": Taking a single source into two inputs. Yes, I know there are exceptions, but in general "Y"ing a single source output into two inputs will not cause electrical problems -- aside from potential dual-mono interference issues.

I'm curious... will there be Milk and cookies after this discussion?? Haha...

Congrats, Kova! I know how much of a relief it is to finally find the right combo for your ears!

Tom, I'm actually with you on that single point of sound experience. I couldn't agree more, but I'm also with Kova on finding whatever sounds better to you. My own ears have often contradicted what is supposed to sound better.

Let me take a crack at explaining the relief I found in my own ears, and how different my results were. What Kova calls "flat" in the Model II I call acoustic accuracy in the Model I. It is a midrange warmth that captures my live voice and guitar perfectly. I didn't appreciate it until I tried the Compact and found it exaggerating the high and low end of my guitar and my voice in such a way that I sounded more like a stereo, and less like a live guitarist.

In fact, the hi's and lo's even caused a bad ringing in my ears. Could be because of the exaggerated hi and lo frequencies. Could be because the line array is much smaller in the Compact and therefore doesn't disperse the sound quickly enough when you're standing right in front of it. Could be any number of things. The bottom line is whatever your ears tell you. It's fascinating to me that Kova found relief by going from the larger Bose to the smaller, whereas I found the opposite.

The moral of the story: Beauty is in the ear of the beholder!

(Ken, thanks for your points. It's hard not to judge, particularly when you feel passionate about something, which most of us tend to feel about our Bose systems!)

On a related note, I have used L1 Classic for several years. In fact I have two of them.
I recently got a Compact and liked the way it sounded, since in most of my work, L1 was overkill anyway.
Then, I ordered a second Compact. I use an arranger keyboard with vocals. I run left output to one Compact and right output to another. Best sound I've ever had! Not sure if the audience can appreciate the difference, but from where I sit, in between and slightly in front of the two compacts, it sounds as if I'm in a recording studio.
Needless to say, I'm ready for anything now!
DonM

Hi Don,

I enjoyed hearing about your success with 2 Compacts, this should thrill the many, many keyboardists who've come to the forums wishing for stereo. Now they can do it, two compacts for the price of a single Model I.