OK, One last question. Do you have a Keyboard in your arsenal that you could try? Something with a solid Grand piano sample?

Louis our Keyboard player has been dreaming about something like this since he bought his L1. A few of his restaurant engagements don't have enough room for his L1 they wouldn't even accommodate the Fishman's footprint. This sounds like the perfect answer to his dilemma.

Hi Garry,

quote:

Originally posted by Bose Guy in Calgary:
Hi ST,

Well, if you're delighted then it MUST be good.

I AM delighted but there are a few things that bear mentioning and I'll do that in another post.

Overall, I think this is a great piece of gear.

quote:

I anticipate an entire new focus on the L1 series by "the industry" now that the Compact has arrived. This means almost everyone who appreciates good professional sound can afford to enter the world of Bose. Price now has been totally removed from a potential buyer's objection list.

A couple of other objections that this addresses:

1. Ease of use. This thing is drop-dead simple. Basically, if a connector fits, you have it in the right place (ignoring the line-outs).
   
   
2. Portability (1). For spoken word applications, this thing sounds amazing and weight less than an single 802.
   
   
3. Portability (2). The whole unit is shorter (front-to-back) than a B1, only slightly wider than a B1, only slightly taller than a B1. Basically, if you have room in your trunk for a B1, you have room for a Compact.
   
   
4. Productivity: It's so fast to set up
   If I was providing A/V (audio-visual) support for a facility that hosts events, I could see having several of these available. And I would be ecstatic that most of the time, there would be little if any support required.
   

quote:

Perhaps you could venture a response to this question: If the Model II with a T1 and two B1's equals a performance level of 100%, how would you rank the Compact and T1 combo? I am assuming from your comments thus far that the number will be greater than 50%.

The more I think about this, the more difficult it may be to answer. But do your best.

I think the answer is "it depends".

If we look at absolutes for a minute; if it we provide sound as required throughout the room, then the job is done. If we don't provide the sound as and where it's required then we have failed.


In any application where the Compact will get the job done, any more would be superfluous. So if a Compact will do the job, the Model II isn't really relevant.

In any application where the Compact (with or without a T1®) will not not get the job done, then we set that aside and look at other alternatives. It would make great sense to consider a Model I or Model II.

So I'm wriggling out of the

"if x is 100%, what is y?"

on the basis that

For those applications where the Compact and the other L1®s overlap in suitability, I would take the Compact.

For those applications where the Compact is not completely suitable, then looking at the percentage that it meets the requirements doesn't help the people who can't hear.

Am I getting anywhere close to what you wanted to know Garry?

Hi Starvin,

quote:

Originally posted by starvin007:
OK, One last question. Do you have a Keyboard in your arsenal that you could try? Something with a solid Grand piano sample?

I do have a Keyboard here (Korg T1) with really nice Grand Piano samples, but I'm not really tuned in to those sounds so I can confirm that I hit keys and sound comes out. Don't know what else to add.

quote:

Louis our Keyboard has been dreaming about something like this since he bought his L1.A few of his restaurant engagements don't have enough room for his L1 they wouldn't even accommodate the Fishman's footprint. This sounds like the perfect answer to his dilemma.

I just wrote this in a post while you were typing.

"Portability (2). The whole unit is shorter (front-to-back) than a B1, only slightly wider than a B1, only slightly taller than a B1. Basically, if you have room in your trunk for a B1, you have room for a Compact."

Do you think something the size of a B1 would be small enough for Louis's dilemma?

quote:

Originally posted by starvin007:

quote:

I guess the question is, can you work with something 78 1/2" tall?

Absolutely! I have 79". Close but I 'm sure I could make that work.

Thanks ST

You need a a couple of inches to do the assembly part. You might be able to make it work by assembling it in a stairwell and sliding it into place. It's certainly light enough to carry around fully assembled.

Nice answering ST. Can't wait to play with one and compare as my amp (and preamp and effects thingys) arsenal as increased quite a bit lately. ( though mostly all about acoustic guitar)

quote:

Do you think something the size of a B1 would be small enough for Louis's dilemma?

Absolutely!That is a smaller footprint than the piano amp he has been using for those gigs.

quote:

I can confirm that I hit keys and sound comes out. Don't know what else to add.

I think I read somewhere that Cliff enjoyed the piano sound.He should know.
I'll check.

Thanks

Yep here it is Col. Cliff-at-Bose wrote

quote:

Now that the kitty is out in the open, I must say that the New Baby delivers just like an L1. Yeah, I know full well what the differences are, intellectually and from a pure-science point of view. But the experience of playing thru the L1C is just like an L1. Honest.

I've been playing thru this stuff longer than anyone on the planet and have probably done more solo demos (piano and voice) than anyone at this point. Even in the early-prototype days, the thing never failed to satisfy. It gives me the same means of expression, the same juice. It's a real acheivement in both musical electroacoustics and simple product definition, the latter not being that simple a task.

And so, me bucko's: Bon Appetit.

Hey Drumr Pete,

quote:

Originally posted by Drumr:
ST...would you say, seeing my Fish Fry video on YouTube, that the C would provide enough thump for my needs?

Do you mean this video It's Such a Pretty World Today.

Well I've been experimenting with all kinds of things and I think using the PorchBoard as a replacement for kick drum you might do better running the PorchBoard to the T1 and taking the preamp out to a PackLite and two B1s. I found that the PorchBoard direct to the PackLite can clip and sound - well it ain't pretty.

But go ahead and get the Compact and see all the places you CAN use it, especially for the smaller ensembles, like when you are doing a recording session.

I can just imagine what you'll go through as you approach the 45 day point of no return.

I didn't like...

This is a very short list and some things aren't all that major.

Hiss
Edit: I have just found out that this unit was a pre-production unit. The units in production do not have this issue. See note from Craig-at-Bose below.
Original comments prior to this knowledge are in italics.
With all the controls at 12:00 o'clock, I can hear a hiss from the speakers. This is louder than the hiss from the Classic (that seems to drop off at 4-8 feet). This is louder than the almost non-existent hiss of Model II (that you have be within a couple of feet to hear).

I can hear this hiss 12 feet away and farther if I really listen for it. You probably won't here it over the sound of an audience. But I noticed it, am aware of it when the Compact is idle, so I thought I should mention it. To put this into perspective, this is no louder than I have heard from just about any amplifier or powered speaker I've heard in a quiet room. I'm sure the main reason I noticed is that it is louder than the Classic or Model II. And those two devices are tough acts to follow.

Edit: RWJ (below) observed that the hiss is more pronounced from Channel 1. I can confirm this now, and that it is most noticeable if you have the volume turned up loud and nothing else is happening (no one on the microphone).
see Hiss Revisited

Edit: I had the Compact out at a gig last night (2009/05/04). This was a restaurant/pub and the hiss was inaudible over the ambient noise in the room.

Signal/Clip indicator
From the manual:

Displays the input signal status in color.
• Green: Input signal present
• Red: Input signal clipping

My issue is that I can't see them when I'm performing (if seated) and I have to go back the Power Stand to see things and to make adjustments. An ameliorating factor is that the Compact doesn't seem to distort if you clip it, at least not until you really hit it hard. And for me I sensed that it was compressing rather than distorting the signal. So it's not going to sound bad just because you can't see those red flickers.


Apparent Volume on stage (compared to Classic/Model I/Model II)
This is completely subjective and I hope to get out my sound pressure level meter to confirm or refute this. It FEELS like I have to run a little louder on stage to get good solid volume at a distance. It's fine, it's just a little louder than I have come to like.


Controls at the Back (again) and No Remote
Okay - the Compact looks great from the front, the part facing the audience. But I am so used to being able to control the sound from either an R1 Remote or a T1®, that this business of having to run back and forth to that Power Stand is a little off-putting. I'm sure that eventually I'll get to set-and-forget mode with respect to the controls, but I find myself wishing that I didn't have to go back to the Power Stand to adjust the volume.

Now if I use a T1® this issue goes away.

T1® - what no ToneMatch cable connection
This has been discussed before, and I understand that I can use the analog connection and an external power supply. That's okay. I just wish that Bose has allowed me to use my ToneMatch cable and provided power from Power Stand. It would greatly simplify my setup.

This one is not a big deal. I just thought I'd mention it.

Sticking / Binding Extensions
I really like that the extensions allow you to get the Loudspeaker Array up in the air where it belongs - and that it is done so elegantly. No tripods or ugly speaker stands here.

Perhaps it is because this is a new unit, I find that the extensions are a little hard to pull apart. I hope this will ease up with time so that it is as easy to assemble/disassemble as it appears in the video.


My list of complaints is pretty small.



Any more questions?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

ST - First of all, thanks for all your reports on the L1C! Great info!

Secondly, you hit upon two things I immediately thought about, when I first saw the L1C.

quote:

Controls at the Back (again) and No Remote

quote:

T1®- what no ToneMatch cable connection

Interesting that you should mention these two things after little usage of the L1C. I'm a little surprised by Bose about both decisions. It just seems to make more sense to me to have the controls easily accessible from the front of the unit and to have provided a T1® ToneMatch direct connection. Oh well...version II, maybe!

I'll be watching for first reports from other L1C pioneers! Keep the reports comin'

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JohnNell,

Be nice if they come out with a battery version with the T1 connection.

Hey again ST, and all,

Very simply, I REALLY AM happy for you guys!

I truly DO NOT believe that any comparison to, or even discussion of, is necessary or even useful. I thought I said that...

A year ago, I believed and NEEDED a smaller, easier to schlepp sound system. (Very few seemed to think this was an important factor back then...) I was right, for me, and I have been delighted since, every time. I am equally delighted, still, when I use my Classic in my electric band situations, every time. It is ALL great, with the most important consideration, to me, being that we can all make better music than ever, using all of this wonderful, easy to use equipment. (Shoot, last weekend, our band played a festival, and because of very tight timing and union impositions, we played with a good quality triple system - not a Bose in sight, and even THIS sounded fine - pretty amazing. We were on and off within 15 minutes each way, and I believe BECAUSE OF our Bose experience, and a good soundman, we made it sound fine.)

So, anyway - again, COMPLETELY FACE VALUE - this is wonderful, I am happy for these new experiences for you guys, and I truly and simply hope you enjoy using this lighter and easier device, and lets all enjoy making our music!

Best, Mike

Good rundown ST ... thanks again for your usual detailed insights ...

When using the Claasic L1 system in close proximity to folk ... I would often experience complaints about hissing when not playing (i.e on my breaks)So would have to turn down the whole system for the duration of a break ...

With system 2 I've not heard much hiss at all ... so that problem was solved.

So if the new compact creates excessive hiss. This make moi a bit leary ..

My question is ... would the speaker arrays fit comfortably in the compact's new carry case?

Just really dislike the fact that I have to unpack & pack, plus carry each column seperately into & out of a gig ...

This fact has turned out to really a PITA with my beloved Bose systems ...
Even a drummer leaves before I do,
since I also mic an amp these days through the L1 ...

quote:

I found that the PorchBoard direct to the PackLite can clip and sound - well it ain't pretty.

ST, did you mean "the PorchBoard direct to the" Compact can clip?

I have run the PB direct into my Model II analog in on the power stand (without towers) with a single B1 attached and it worked fine.
So for my country gigs, I couldn't really slim down enough to make the L1 Compact worthwhile, having to add the T1/A1/B1s to the list.
There is just no way for a Bose reinforced drummer to trim down that far...or a synthesized guitarist either, I notice.
But as you've said, I really do need to buy one of these just to see, and to keep the *family* together.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Drumr,

Hi Drumr Pete,

quote:

Originally posted by Drumr:

quote:

I found that the PorchBoard direct to the PackLite can clip and sound - well it ain't pretty.

ST, did you mean "the PorchBoard direct to the" Compact can clip?

Actually - I did mean this.

Among several things to get more PorchBoard into the mix.

At one point I tried running the PorchBoard direct to a PackLite with two B1s, just to see if it would work. It does but you can clip it if you hit the PorchBoard hard.

Hi Joseph,

Ahhh, about three years ago... I'm remembering Big Sur...

Okay back to business.

quote:

Originally posted by Joseph:
Good rundown ST ... thanks again for your usual detailed insights ...

When using the Claasic L1 system in close proximity to folk ... I would often experience complaints about hissing when not playing (i.e on my breaks)So would have to turn down the whole system for the duration of a break ...

With system 2 I've not heard much hiss at all ... so that problem was solved.

So if the new compact creates excessive hiss. This make moi a bit leary ..

Well, you are probably going to want to turn down the Volume controls on the Compact during breaks. Or simpler, you can probably just switch it off or play background music.

quote:

My question is ... would the speaker arrays fit comfortably in the compact's new carry case?

Ahhh. The Speaker Array fits right into the Power Stand.

The Extensions are super light. Less than five pounds for both of them. They come with a light case that you toss over your shoulder.

Check out this L1® Compact Interactive Demo to get the full scoop.

quote:

Just really dislike the fact that I have to unpack & pack, plus carry each column separately into & out of a gig ...

Less than a microphone stand for both extensions.

And the Power Stand with the Speaker Array is 24.6 pounds. That's less than one of your B1s. And that Power Stand is just slightly bigger than a B1.

quote:

This fact has turned out to really a PITA with my beloved Bose systems ...
Even a drummer leaves before I do,
since I also mic an amp these days through the L1 ...

I can feel your pain there buddy, but this Compact is a lot lighter all round than the Classic.

There's lots more info here for you in the wiki.

L1® Compact page in the wiki.

I spent some time this morning with my new L1 compact. I am really liking it. It's going to simplify things even more for this old man.

ST, I had not noticed the hiss in mine until you mentioned it. It is not bad at all in my unit. There seems to be a little more on the mike channel. I'll do more checking in a gig this week.

Some other observations:

This unit has tons of bass for its size.
I really do feel like I'm playing through my classic or model II. Nice!

It definitely does drop off more quickly than its big brothers.

It gets very loud for its size. It could be a little uncomfortable if you are trying to fill a big room or carry too far outside. Gee, I guess that's why they make the other units.

The wide dispersion is great and is what we have come to enjoy so much in the other models. For speakers(talkers) making a presentation in a wide room, it will be a great help to the crowd to use this equipment. Many presenters think they have a strong voice and don't need a mike.
Sure, enough sound can be heard, but each time you turn your head to the left or right there is a considerable loss of high frequency info., the stuff that consonants are made of. The L1 will greatly improve clarity and communication even for small crowds, especially in big rooms.

My work with the compact today was outside. It did very well and I would not hesitate to use it in some street festivals where I'm covering small crowds that stop to listen for a while. It will be just right.

The clarity of the system is what we have come to expect from the L1 family and the compact holds its own in that department. However, in my limited testing, It seems to be much clearer when one or both of the extensions are used. I'm not sure why that is. When it's in the collapsed configuration it can sound a bit muddy at high volume levels. It seems that there may be some masking of certain frequencies when all of the sound is coming from the same place. I seem to remember that the crossover point is at around 400hz. I don't know how sharp the crossover slope is but perhaps there is a region where certain frequencies are being reinforced and masking some of the mid-highs and highs. Perhaps it's the cocktail party effect in the vertical dimension.
I'm in way over my head here. It may just be my imagination that it's clearer with the extensions. Perhaps some Bose folks will chime in.

It is a really fine addition to my equipment and I salute Bose for making it available.

Now, about having to use the power supply with the tonematch module..................

My best,
Rick

Electric Guitar / Bass

Joseph - My Ibanez GB10 sounds amazing through this. Just straight in, no Preset. Bigger boxes too (Howard Roberts, L5)

Doug and all you other tone monsters - This sounds pretty much like a Model II, so you can expect the same kind of sound. I'm don't see competing with a hard hitting Drummer though. I would definitely take this to a gig where I am doing leads with an acoustic oriented band.

Andy - I ran my Musicman Stingray (4 string fretless) through this and I can clearly hear all the way down, even with the D-dropper. Think presence, not drive.

I can't remember the name of your old band, but I can imagine this being fine for that kind of music, in a small venue (maybe 800-1000 square feet). Bigger than that and I'd be rolling in a something with at least a couple of B1s.

ST,

Can you post some comparative pics of a Model I, Model II, & Compact? I'd especially like to see a B1 next to the Compact & maybe a closeup of the size of the array with extensions next to the other two Cylindrical Radiators.

Tom

Hiss Revisited

Hi Rick!

quote:

Originally posted by rwj:
I spent some time this morning with my new L1 compact. I am really liking it. It's going to simplify things even more for this old man.

ST, I had not noticed the hiss in mine until you mentioned it. It is not bad at all in my unit. There seems to be a little more on the mike channel. I'll do more checking in a gig this week.

[...]
Rick

I've gone back and revisited this.

Yes, it is definitely more pronounced on the microphone channel (Channel 1).

I realize now that with the Volume set at 12:00, this is pretty loud when you actually start singing. It is unlikely, except when testing, that I would leave the system unattended with the microphone level that high.

Channel 2 seems quieter.


Edit:
And a little more on this:

I did a little more testing (DJs in mind here).

When playing pre-recorded music you do not hear the hiss at all.

Edit: I had the Compact out at a gig last night (2009/05/04). This was a restaurant/pub and the hiss was inaudible over the ambient noise in the room.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,